Has anyone bred the Black coppers with white under fluff or white feathers and ended up with some wheaton sports?
Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!
- Thread starter Wynette
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- Sep 28, 2008
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I just want to say Hi Poulard I lived in Puyallup and was raised in Kent... Nice to see a fellow neighbor on here.. Went To Thomas Jefferson... Good to see a hometown homey on here!!! I still come up to visit from time to time.
Well next visit you have to let me know. Maybe you might drop off a few birds too. Hint. Hint. I really could use some hatching eggs!
- Sep 28, 2008
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n.smithurmond-
Correct BCM require mahogany and melanizing genes in the perfect balance to meet the SOP. Wheaten carry neither mahogany nor melanizers. I believe these are the "Wheaten influences" that are leftover even when the eWh allele is bred out, that Don is culling.
The balance of mahogany and melanizers is different for an SOP hen than it is for an SOP rooster, from what I've read on this thread. So starting out with a Rooster that is potentially lacking in one or both because of Wheaten in his background makes this balance even more tricky. I believe this is what Don is trying to eliminate.
The Brown/Red or Red Birchen (BCM) and the Wheaten part of the genetics is like the "canvas" that determines where the paint (feather color) goes. You can use the same paint on these different canvases, and it ends up looking different. But with the Wheaten, some of the color is missing compared to the BCM, so even when you get the canvas part fixed, the paint is still missing.
Does that make any sense?
Correct BCM require mahogany and melanizing genes in the perfect balance to meet the SOP. Wheaten carry neither mahogany nor melanizers. I believe these are the "Wheaten influences" that are leftover even when the eWh allele is bred out, that Don is culling.
The balance of mahogany and melanizers is different for an SOP hen than it is for an SOP rooster, from what I've read on this thread. So starting out with a Rooster that is potentially lacking in one or both because of Wheaten in his background makes this balance even more tricky. I believe this is what Don is trying to eliminate.
The Brown/Red or Red Birchen (BCM) and the Wheaten part of the genetics is like the "canvas" that determines where the paint (feather color) goes. You can use the same paint on these different canvases, and it ends up looking different. But with the Wheaten, some of the color is missing compared to the BCM, so even when you get the canvas part fixed, the paint is still missing.
Does that make any sense?
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- Sep 28, 2008
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No village.. say it again another way please.. I am listening.
The SOP standard is different for hens because it is harder to balance the melaniser/mahogany... so the tolerances are "looser"... You HAVE to have the proper colored hen to produce the proper colored males so attention paid to the smallest nuances in your hens will ultimatly pay huge dividends in the next generation. Like a game of chess you have to be more than one move ahead with the hens.
The SOP standard is different for hens because it is harder to balance the melaniser/mahogany... so the tolerances are "looser"... You HAVE to have the proper colored hen to produce the proper colored males so attention paid to the smallest nuances in your hens will ultimatly pay huge dividends in the next generation. Like a game of chess you have to be more than one move ahead with the hens.
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If white tail feathers is a Wheaton influence then is it OK for Wheatons to have them? If not then why is it considered a Wheaton trait?
- Sep 28, 2008
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Cowgirl!!! (love the name).. I do not comment on wheaton as it isn't my focus so I am not being rude or ignoring you... Just not an area I am focusing and experienced in... Just don't want you to think I am ignoring you.
Quote:
I think so. Are you saying that once you've removed the wheaten gene you obviously won't be getting any wheaten chicks but the mahogany and melanizers are still missing from the Black Coppers? If this is the case then it would be either impossible or very difficult to produce a correctly colored BC (from the APA's perspective)?
I think so. Are you saying that once you've removed the wheaten gene you obviously won't be getting any wheaten chicks but the mahogany and melanizers are still missing from the Black Coppers? If this is the case then it would be either impossible or very difficult to produce a correctly colored BC (from the APA's perspective)?
Hi Geebs, thanks for listening.
The eWh, Mh, and Ml genes are not linked in any way. You can cull out the obvious eWh chicks based on their down. You can cull any that you suspect to be half wheaten based on the brown fluff, pale legs, etc. What are left over are ER/ER (birchen) that are not eWh but didn't get their full dose of Mh or Ml because their ancester was a Wheaten. The missing Mh and Ml genes are not just passed down to the offspring that are half wheaten. A half wheaten half BCM rooster mated with a pure BCM hen will produce 3/4 of his offspring as pure ER/ER birchen (maybe showing "wheaten influence", the other 1/4 will be like him, half wheaten. But potentially any of the offspring could be missing the Mh and Ml genes that result from the rooster being half wheaten, even the ER/ER birchens.
So even with the ER birchen part of the genetics correct, the wheaten past can pass on what it lacked to the non-wheaten offspring.
Any clearer?
The eWh, Mh, and Ml genes are not linked in any way. You can cull out the obvious eWh chicks based on their down. You can cull any that you suspect to be half wheaten based on the brown fluff, pale legs, etc. What are left over are ER/ER (birchen) that are not eWh but didn't get their full dose of Mh or Ml because their ancester was a Wheaten. The missing Mh and Ml genes are not just passed down to the offspring that are half wheaten. A half wheaten half BCM rooster mated with a pure BCM hen will produce 3/4 of his offspring as pure ER/ER birchen (maybe showing "wheaten influence", the other 1/4 will be like him, half wheaten. But potentially any of the offspring could be missing the Mh and Ml genes that result from the rooster being half wheaten, even the ER/ER birchens.
So even with the ER birchen part of the genetics correct, the wheaten past can pass on what it lacked to the non-wheaten offspring.
Any clearer?
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