Lisa, when you get time how about taking another side view of the #2 male, first though smooth down the Tail Covert feathers so they are flat and lets see what happens. Thanks, Don
Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!
- Thread starter Wynette
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Sure thing. .. . It was real windy the day we took them AND it is windy today AGAIN. .. . Maybe this weekend I can get it done!
Sure thing. .. . It was real windy the day we took them AND it is windy today AGAIN. .. . Maybe this weekend I can get it done!
Chris~ Thank you for that wonderful explanation. I believe my rooster is the bird that is split....but alas, as Berkeley stated if a clean leg bird pops up from time to time with everything else considered Marans then I am good with dealing with it when it happens.
found some more reading on feathered legs that some mioght like
There are three known genes which cause leg feathering -- Pti-1, Pti-2, and pti-3. ("Pti" stands for "ptilopody", which means "foot feathering" or, I suppose more accurately, "feather-footedness").
Pti-1 and Pti-2 are dominant genes. Therefore, it only takes one copy of these genes to produce leg feathering.
Pti-3 is a recessive gene. Therefore, it takes two copies of this gene for pti-3 to produce leg feathering. I have heard that this gene is only present in a breed called Pavloff, but I don't know whether that is true or not.
There also appears to be at least one "feather foot inhibiting gene". This gene (or set of genes) doesn't seem to have a widely accepted label -- and from the small amount I've read about it, it isn't really clear whether this inhibitor is a simple recessive trait or not. If it is recessive, then it would take two copies of this gene to produce its full effect -- and the trait would have to be inherited from BOTH parents. HOWEVER, for all I know this gene might actually be an incomplete dominant -- meaning that it might inhibit leg feathering a bit if there were one copy of the gene, and inhibit leg feathering further if there were two copies of the gene.
Remember that, in Marans, we want LIGHT leg feathering. So perhaps we are working with birds who have only one of the leg feathering genes, OR perhaps we are working with birds who have leg feather inhibitors along with the feathering genes. I don't know whether anyone has studied the phenomenon in Marans yet, so perhaps one of us will be the first to figure out the details!
There are three known genes which cause leg feathering -- Pti-1, Pti-2, and pti-3. ("Pti" stands for "ptilopody", which means "foot feathering" or, I suppose more accurately, "feather-footedness").
Pti-1 and Pti-2 are dominant genes. Therefore, it only takes one copy of these genes to produce leg feathering.
Pti-3 is a recessive gene. Therefore, it takes two copies of this gene for pti-3 to produce leg feathering. I have heard that this gene is only present in a breed called Pavloff, but I don't know whether that is true or not.
There also appears to be at least one "feather foot inhibiting gene". This gene (or set of genes) doesn't seem to have a widely accepted label -- and from the small amount I've read about it, it isn't really clear whether this inhibitor is a simple recessive trait or not. If it is recessive, then it would take two copies of this gene to produce its full effect -- and the trait would have to be inherited from BOTH parents. HOWEVER, for all I know this gene might actually be an incomplete dominant -- meaning that it might inhibit leg feathering a bit if there were one copy of the gene, and inhibit leg feathering further if there were two copies of the gene.
Remember that, in Marans, we want LIGHT leg feathering. So perhaps we are working with birds who have only one of the leg feathering genes, OR perhaps we are working with birds who have leg feather inhibitors along with the feathering genes. I don't know whether anyone has studied the phenomenon in Marans yet, so perhaps one of us will be the first to figure out the details!
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Thanks Randy for the gene theory. The description of "light" leg feathering is another thing I believe needs to be addressed. The standard calls for feathers down the outside of the shank and outside toes. Now, how heavy the feathering should be is my question. I have my two dark boys that have bountiful feathering on the outside of the shanks and on the outside toes. Then my other cockerel has more of a "hairy legged" appearance, with feather stubbles on the toes. To me personally, the two dark boys, which I had considered as more heavy feathered, appear more correct to me. The other cockerel just looks scraggley!
My three older pullets all came from two feathered parents, yet only one of them has the sparse feathering on the shanks, and none on the toes. The other two have zero feathers on shanks or toes. I have bred them to the two boys with the heavier feathering in hopes of having any resulting pullets with some kind of shank/toe feathering. Personally, I love the look of the heavier feathering, so I am hoping to improve in this area in my hens. Breeding the heavy feathering to another heavy feathering should at least produce some kind of feathering on the offspring? Is this in any way a sex related thing? In other words, are the roos more likely to repeat the trait more than the hens when bred this way? I need some feathered hens here!
Thanks Randy for the gene theory. The description of "light" leg feathering is another thing I believe needs to be addressed. The standard calls for feathers down the outside of the shank and outside toes. Now, how heavy the feathering should be is my question. I have my two dark boys that have bountiful feathering on the outside of the shanks and on the outside toes. Then my other cockerel has more of a "hairy legged" appearance, with feather stubbles on the toes. To me personally, the two dark boys, which I had considered as more heavy feathered, appear more correct to me. The other cockerel just looks scraggley!
what year did u get your stock , the reason i ask is i think everyone needs to put a date on our flock ,lol like a bottle of wine with month/day/year because im think even the big breeders will tell ya there flock has changed from year to year and day to day ,,,,, i have 4 origonal birds from eggs i hatched but whos to say the big breeders would of
used them in a breeding program .lol lol i picked marans (wheaten color) because i liked the color and two and a half years later and 3 generations later
i hope there still wheatens lol lol
i wonder if 2008 and 2009 was a good year for chickens ?
ps mabe put a experation date would be more apropreate
lol my wheaten marans expired in late 2008
,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!its friday and im a carpenter and as long as i can count to 10 at the end of the day ,,, its a good one
take care all
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My flocks have never thrown a single clean legged chick in three years. Ron Presley, Wade Gene, and Bev Davis origin. Nor wheaten. Sometimes I get excessive red on the breast, and some mossiness and a shorter than normal outer toe though.
used them in a breeding program .lol lol i picked marans (wheaten color) because i liked the color and two and a half years later and 3 generations later
i hope there still wheatens lol lol
i wonder if 2008 and 2009 was a good year for chickens ?
ps mabe put a experation date would be more apropreate
lol my wheaten marans expired in late 2008
,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!its friday and im a carpenter and as long as i can count to 10 at the end of the day ,,, its a good one
take care all
Quote:
My flocks have never thrown a single clean legged chick in three years. Ron Presley, Wade Gene, and Bev Davis origin. Nor wheaten. Sometimes I get excessive red on the breast, and some mossiness and a shorter than normal outer toe though.
Quote:
My flocks have never thrown a single clean legged chick in three years. Ron Presley, Wade Gene, and Bev Davis origin. Nor wheaten. Sometimes I get excessive red on the breast, and some mossiness and a shorter than normal outer toe though.
Randy you crack me up!
My flocks have never thrown a single clean legged chick in three years. Ron Presley, Wade Gene, and Bev Davis origin. Nor wheaten. Sometimes I get excessive red on the breast, and some mossiness and a shorter than normal outer toe though.
Randy you crack me up!
The description of "light" leg feathering is another thing I believe needs to be addressed. The standard calls for feathers down the outside of the shank and outside toes. Now, how heavy the feathering should be is my question.
It's my opinion that they should be sparsely feathered and to me that means a nice row of feathers down the outside of the shank and possibly a feather or 2 on the outer toe. The reason I say feather or 2 is because that is what I have come to expect out of Gnarles and several of my older girls....they just don't produce chicks with feathers on the toe all the time and I personally prefer this but it is not what the standard calls for. Gnarles has feathers that make it look like he has a couple feathers on his outer toe but he does not.
The chicks that I get that are IMO heavily feathered are the chicks produced from the new BCM girls that I had shipped in last year...now they produce some feather legged chicks I tell ya, they've even thrown a couple of chicks (since I have finally got an egg from each and everyone of the BCM girls to hatch) that have one random feather on the very end of the middle toe. What's up with that?
Don't know if this will help or not and I know it is not what the standard calls for but here is a photo of Gnarles' legs and feet and this is what I personally like for leg feathering.
Oh and totally off topic for a minute..........THE 2 WHITE TAIL FEATHERS ON GNARLES ARE ALMOST 100% BLUE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
Noticed it 2 days ago when I was showing him to a lady that came to purchase up some of his chicks. I'm so excited about this I could happy dance all day. Seems to me that since the color has come back in almost the entire feather (only the tip of the tail feather has yet to turn completely blue but I can see where it is still traveling) that it must have been an injury and not just that he sprouted white feathers after his molt.
It's my opinion that they should be sparsely feathered and to me that means a nice row of feathers down the outside of the shank and possibly a feather or 2 on the outer toe. The reason I say feather or 2 is because that is what I have come to expect out of Gnarles and several of my older girls....they just don't produce chicks with feathers on the toe all the time and I personally prefer this but it is not what the standard calls for. Gnarles has feathers that make it look like he has a couple feathers on his outer toe but he does not.
The chicks that I get that are IMO heavily feathered are the chicks produced from the new BCM girls that I had shipped in last year...now they produce some feather legged chicks I tell ya, they've even thrown a couple of chicks (since I have finally got an egg from each and everyone of the BCM girls to hatch) that have one random feather on the very end of the middle toe. What's up with that?
Don't know if this will help or not and I know it is not what the standard calls for but here is a photo of Gnarles' legs and feet and this is what I personally like for leg feathering.
Oh and totally off topic for a minute..........THE 2 WHITE TAIL FEATHERS ON GNARLES ARE ALMOST 100% BLUE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
Noticed it 2 days ago when I was showing him to a lady that came to purchase up some of his chicks. I'm so excited about this I could happy dance all day. Seems to me that since the color has come back in almost the entire feather (only the tip of the tail feather has yet to turn completely blue but I can see where it is still traveling) that it must have been an injury and not just that he sprouted white feathers after his molt.
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Morning Everyone!
I have 15 little fuzzies running around this morning. I would have had 19 but one chick pipped zipped and was laying half way out of the shell dead...a blue copper
and 3 other eggs pipped and tried pipping more but they quit.....hey but atleast they started.
So far 2 Black Coppers, 3 Splash and the rest are Blue Coppers.
That Gnarles boy sure like to pass on the blues.
So far 2 Black Coppers, 3 Splash and the rest are Blue Coppers.
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