Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Dearsrock]

Quote:
I appreciate the feedback I got on these. Took a hard look again and all have squirrel tails. Roo 1 is definately heavier by a few lbs, broader chest. And he threw that body at me with all his might last night drawing blood. Is that something that will continue or a phase for this age? I know they are suppose to be the protector of the flock, but that won't fly with me. One option is he gets his own suite and only comes out in the spring. I appreciate any more feedback, and ideas on the behavior. I've decided they all get one more week while I sort this out. Thanks! Renee S CA

 

[Debbi]

Well, from what I've seen here, once they are about 8 months old, if they are being mean to you, it's not going to go away! Can you say "Stew pot"?? Flock protector and manfighter are two totally different things!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Debbi, I have not done a test on this but I do not believe Carnation Comb would be classified the same as the Sprig would. The Carnation Comb would be a throw bACK TO THE pENNE. The sprig is just a fault found in most breeds in poultry.

I do not think the Carnation would have to be on male and female though. I believe it could come from either.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Debbi, I have not done a test on this but I do not believe Carnation Comb would be classified the same as the Sprig would. The Carnation Comb would be a throw bACK TO THE pENNE. The sprig is just a fault found in most breeds in poultry.

I do not think the Carnation would have to be on male and female though. I believe it could come from either.

No, you are right, the carnation is not the same as a sprig. I have a sprig on my older Blue Copper roo, looks nothing like these! The carnation presented itself on the one hen parent, but not on the roo parent. Needless to say, if it takes two genes for the carnation to express itself, with the brother/sister mating, these chicks got doubled up on the genes, and are thusly presenting with the carnations. Am I seeing this wrong, if so, please explain? ETA: The other 2 hens that are sisters to the one with the carnation do NOT express the comb, but would still carry the gene for it too, right??

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Debbi, I have not done a test on this but I do not believe Carnation Comb would be classified the same as the Sprig would. The Carnation Comb would be a throw bACK TO THE pENNE. The sprig is just a fault found in most breeds in poultry.

I do not think the Carnation would have to be on male and female though. I believe it could come from either.

No, you are right, the carnation is not the same as a sprig. I have a sprig on my older Blue Copper roo, looks nothing like these! The carnation presented itself on the one hen parent, but not on the roo parent. Needless to say, if it takes two genes for the carnation to express itself, with the brother/sister mating, these chicks got doubled up on the genes, and are thusly presenting with the carnations. Am I seeing this wrong, if so, please explain? ETA: The other 2 hens that are sisters to the one with the carnation do NOT express the comb, but would still carry the gene for it too, right??

Side sprig, carnation comb all are DQ's. Any comb that appears to be foreign to the breed is a DQ. It is usually hereditary and can be in either sex. Sometimes it is hard to get rid of.

Walt

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Debbi, I have not done a test on this but I do not believe Carnation Comb would be classified the same as the Sprig would. The Carnation Comb would be a throw bACK TO THE pENNE. The sprig is just a fault found in most breeds in poultry.

I do not think the Carnation would have to be on male and female though. I believe it could come from either.

No, you are right, the carnation is not the same as a sprig. I have a sprig on my older Blue Copper roo, looks nothing like these! The carnation presented itself on the one hen parent, but not on the roo parent. Needless to say, if it takes two genes for the carnation to express itself, with the brother/sister mating, these chicks got doubled up on the genes, and are thusly presenting with the carnations. Am I seeing this wrong, if so, please explain?

Debbi, I do believe you got doubled up on the brother-sister. I was told by someone that has used the penne blood that you would get a small fraction of the carnation comb and mostly in the male from crossing the Penne into the Marans. After the initial cross anythime you breed any combination of the Carnation Penne together you be be doubling up the gene. The person that I talked to also said you will get some of the carnations even if you do not breed them back into birds with Penne influence.

I have not been able to find anything in any of the old Poultry books I have but I am still looking.

 

[ChicksterJo]

Edit: I guess not all Marans have Penedesenca blood? What other features would show that a bird has this influence?

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
No, you are right, the carnation is not the same as a sprig. I have a sprig on my older Blue Copper roo, looks nothing like these! The carnation presented itself on the one hen parent, but not on the roo parent. Needless to say, if it takes two genes for the carnation to express itself, with the brother/sister mating, these chicks got doubled up on the genes, and are thusly presenting with the carnations. Am I seeing this wrong, if so, please explain? ETA: The other 2 hens that are sisters to the one with the carnation do NOT express the comb, but would still carry the gene for it too, right??

Side sprig, carnation comb all are DQ's. Any comb that appears to be foreign to the breed is a DQ. It is usually hereditary and can be in either sex. Sometimes it is hard to get rid of.

Walt

Walt, the easiest way to get rid of the sprig and carnation comb is set the block up and sharpen the Axe. This all goes back to doing the test matings and keeping records with bands on our fowl. One or two good pair will produce more young than most can pen. It took me 40 year to be able to cull properly, I always had some excuse to keep the culls.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
More lines of Marans have Penne blood than you would ever dream about. When you see the white ear lobe, female with the back part of the comb twisted side ways, and small game type fowl and real wild type you have some penne lurking.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
No, you are right, the carnation is not the same as a sprig. I have a sprig on my older Blue Copper roo, looks nothing like these! The carnation presented itself on the one hen parent, but not on the roo parent. Needless to say, if it takes two genes for the carnation to express itself, with the brother/sister mating, these chicks got doubled up on the genes, and are thusly presenting with the carnations. Am I seeing this wrong, if so, please explain?

Debbi, I do believe you got doubled up on the brother-sister. I was told by someone that has used the penne blood that you would get a small fraction of the carnation comb and mostly in the male from crossing the Penne into the Marans. After the initial cross anythime you breed any combination of the Carnation Penne together you be be doubling up the gene. The person that I talked to also said you will get some of the carnations even if you do not breed them back into birds with Penne influence.
I have not been able to find anything in any of the old Poultry books I have but I am still looking.

And therein lies the rub. To look at the hatchmates of the hen that HAS the carnation, you wouldn't see any Pene influence. The other two hens look, in all aspects, like Black Copper Marans, BUT they will surely be carrying ONE gene of the carnation comb. When you breed one of them to a roo that also has the ONE gene, but does not express the comb, you WILL get carnation combs in the young. With as small as the gene pool is in this country, I would bet a lot more people are hiding the one gene than we know. Test mating/single breeding is sound advice, although not always practical in smaller set-ups. These were my first eggs, my very first clutch of Marans. The guy I bought them from is still cranking them out, and more people are buying and breeding them. I've seen them in here, and on ebay. All of these birds here that are expressing the carnation, and ALL of the original hens will be culled before breeding/hatching resumes here!! Then I will test mate in small numbers from here on out. A whole year plus down the drain, but a good learning experience!