Mareks, showing poultry and safety precautions

So far I have not experienced Marek's in my flock, thank God. (Not to say that it isn't there, because the garden where my girls free-range is also home to a very wide variety of wild birds, but I have never seen symptoms in my girls.)

However, I have recently been through a horrible time with respiratory illness, due to 3 new birds bought from a 'reputable' breeder, who shows birds nationwide, and has hundreds of trophies. I had bought 2 chickens from her at the beginning of the year - both healthy, strong girls. I quarantined them even though it seemed unnecessary, as they were in perfect health, and integrated perfectly with my little flock. So when I decided to get 3 more girls in August, I naturally went back to the same breeder. Being a trusting person (or 'fool', depending upon your point of view) I expected that the girls would be just as healthy as the previous two I bought. I didn't have access to the same quarantine setup as before, but I thought there would be no problem, as her flock is obviously so healthy and well cared for.

How wrong can you be?

The 3 girls I brought home turned out to have lice as big as termites all over them, and started sneezing in the car on the way home. At first I put the sneezing down to the air conditioning in the car, but then I realised that it wasn't just that. Although I managed to treat the lice before they got to the rest of my flock, the new chickens infected my whole flock with a respiratory disease, which I have been battling ever since.

I phoned the breeder to ask her advice. Of course I should have had my brain engaged earlier on, because when I was there buying my girls I pointed out one chicken and she said 'Oh that one's not on form at the moment, don't take her', but of course I was so keen on buying more chickens that I just put that remark to one side.

On the phone the breeder at first denied having any sick chickens, but when I reminded her of what she had said, she replied 'Oh yes, one girl was a bit sick, but I put grapefruit extract in the water for a couple of days and she was fine - they haven't got any respiratory disease, it's just because it's been cold and wet this summer'.

My vet disagrees - I took my most badly affected chicken to her, and explained that all of the flock were suffering to some degree. She gave me a course of antibiotics for the flock, and told me that they will now carry a respiratory illness for life. Two months on, one of the original girls I bought from the breeder (the youngest and weakest) is still suffering, despite all the treatment. I know that I can never let my girls leave my property, because they will infect any flock they go to. That isn't a problem for me, as my girls are 'pets with perks' - they are with me for life. I am happy to eat the eggs they give me, but that is not the only reason that I keep them - they are company, and so much fun to watch!.

All of this wouldn't bother me, except that three weeks ago I went to the county fair, and guess what - the local poultry breeding society was there, and the main pen was full of this particular breeder's chickens - for sale! They were all of the same age as my girls, so obviously from the same flock. I couldn't see any that were sneezing or had runny noses, but she has around 200 birds, so obviously she only chose the healthiest ones to take to the fair. However, as far as I am concerned that doesn't mean that they aren't infectious - just that they aren't displaying symptoms at the moment.

I understand that as a commercial breeder it would be financially damaging to have to cull the flock and start again, but as a responsible person I cannot believe that she doesn't understand the havoc and distress she could be causing in other flocks when she sells her birds

At home I practice as much 'biosecurity' as I can - I have shoes and clothes that are only for the garden and cleaning the chicken coop, and which I never wear outside of my property. I would certainly never consider taking my girls to a show where they could come into contact with other chickens, much less selling or giving them to another owner, where they could contaminate a whole new flock.
 
I'm so sorry for that your troubles, Kaytee. That breeder needs a head slap. Birds don't get "a bit sick", they either have a contagious respiratory illness or situational pneumonia or a fungal lung infection, or at the outside, if you can reliably determine it, perhaps a secondary sinusitis, but you must know how it happened to judge that. Grapefruit extract? Good grief. At least your vet has it right.

I don't buy birds and my flock is MG/MS-free (tested-so those who say that doesn't happen, well, it does) and yet, I'm in critical mode over a Marek's scare myself. If it is here, I will have absolutely NO idea where it came from. I have decent coops and kill myself keeping them maintained. No young birds have ever been symptomatic here though every LF broody ranges with her youngsters while raising them; I have a broody with three 6 week old chicks now, going all over this property. They seem healthy like all other chicks here have. People must spray their shoes when they come here. No one goes in coops or pens if they come to get birds or hatching eggs; well, depending on what happens, no one will be getting birds anymore, only hatching eggs, maybe. I can't imagine it's Marek's with no one showing any traditional symptoms, but if so, I can close this flock even tighter, not even the two extra cockerels I have now will leave.

My scare started with a one year old hen dying rather suddenly and her liver and intestines didn't look right at all, first weird liver I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty of them. I got differing opinions on what it could be from photos, but I had already disposed of the body, no reason to think anything was wrong other than maybe she'd gotten into heavy metals (Lord knows there are enough small bullet casings all over this property) or ate something that destroyed her liver. Then another hen three months later went downhill, euthanized her and the preliminary was massive reproductive infection, plus worms (she had been wormed at the end of May, but I am changing wormers anyway), liver was normal, MG-free, but some findings don't make sense so have to clarify them. Jury is still out.

I will tell you one thing, though-I will never knowingly cause heartache in someone's flock, no matter how blase some folks are about Marek's and other diseases.
 
speckledhen quote: I will tell you one thing, though-I will never knowingly cause heartache in someone's flock, no matter how blase some folks are about Marek's and other diseases.

That's why you are the person you are
hugs.gif



 
Hope you don't mind my interjection.

Stress of a move can bring on lots of problems that lay just under the skin. Chickens are stressed a great deal in a move and should be done as painlessly as possible. Quarantine gives them a chance to adjust away from other birds.

Like humans stress can affect the immune system. Your chickens know you and can recognize strangers. I don't as a rule, let visitors go in and around my chickens.

My point in saying this is that even a reputable breeder who has perfectly healthy birds may sell birds that get sick just from the stress of a move. I've learned not to be quick in thinking it is their fault. It may well be, but it may not.

Practical Poultry had a nice article on Mareks. I still have the article. Two important things it notes is that vaccinations are not 100% effective and that Mareks can be gotten from wild birds. Which is why I stopped putting a bird feeder out when I got chickens.

It can be hard to practice Bio-security sometimes. You don't want to say, "I'm sorry but you can't come in the chicken yard or coop" but the consequences of NOT saying it can be worse.

IMO, a closed flock is best. Birds go out, but don't come in.

Speckledhen, I have yet to get another Del roo as big as George. I'm sure I have his girls but none of his boys. I'll have to do a lot of hatching come spring. Lord willing. Have you heard from Kathy? PM me if you will.

Take care,

Have a good night.
 
Merek's is a tragedy - and I'm sorry for all (of us) who have lost chickens to Marek's

There are some real misconceptions about Marek's vaccine. It does not cure Marek's entirely. Rather it slows it and prevents the tumors from developing and killing the chicken. This is because Marek's vaccine is a non-sterilizing vaccine.

Here is a little bit from Wikipedia on Merek's that says it more articulately that I can:

Prevention (from Wikipedia on Merek's disease)

Vaccination is the only known method to prevent the development of tumors when chickens are infected with the virus. However, administration of vaccines does not prevent transmission of the virus, i.e., the vaccine is non-sterilizing..


Often I think that Merek's is so fragile in vaccine form - it must all be used within 1/2 hour -- (how to vaccinate 1000 chickens in 1/2 hour - as that is the dosage usually sold)-- It is sensitive to temperatures in vaccine form - etc. but it can live in soil a very long time. The vaccine has about a 95% effective rate, so a vaccinated chick can still die of Merek's. Why couldn't Merek's be that fragile in nature?

People walking past a chicken at a poultry show are a risk, as others have said so are the wild birds, perhaps so are the cages? and I actually believe so are the vaccinated chickens. A chicken brought home from a poultry show should be quarantined - just as if it were a new bird brought to your premises. The incubation for Marek's isn't 4-weeks like most diseases it is actually 12-weeks. Someone who shows chickens is taking a risk and should be fully aware.

Breeding for resistance is better all around - because it is nearly impossible to really have a sterile environment outdoors. --- Should you shower and change clothing and dis-infect between all of the various pens -- or keep a set of coveralls for each pen? Put a biodome over your chickens to protect them from the air. It isn't possible or practical to have a totally Marek's free world.

Here is a page of collected university articles, anecdotes, ideas and links about Merek's -- It is a fact site that asks for your sources to be cited (unless of course you are listing the symptoms that you experienced) - Hopefully BYC members who have more information to share - or knowledge links etc. will add to this site -- because threads get lost/buried over time and it is hard to come back and reference. Thanks in advance for any contributions that you may make to the collection.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site
 
Last edited:
Quote: I sent you that PM, Tim. Glad George was a good one for you. Ike does throw some nice sons.



chicKat, the thread I've been involved with about breeding for Marek's resistance started by sassybirds is fascinating. You should really check that out. It's chock full of more information than you'd even believe, with references way beyond what most of us have found online ourselves. Great thread, very civil even when folks disagree, quite refreshing, even though the subject can be disturbing, sad and depressing.


Quote: No one can really live like that, can they? I'm looking into that dome, though, LOL. I'm trying to still joke about this somehow because if I don't....well, you know.
 
Last edited:
.....



chicKat, the thread I've been involved with about breeding for Marek's resistance started by sassybirds is fascinating. You should really check that out. It's chock full of more information than you'd even believe, with references way beyond what most of us have found online ourselves. Great thread, very civil even when folks disagree, quite refreshing, even though the subject can be disturbing, sad and depressing.


No one can really live like that, can they? I'm looking into that dome, though, LOL. I'm trying to still joke about this somehow because if I don't....well, you know.
Thanks speckledhen - I will do a search of sassybirds - if you get a chance and can post a link here that would also be great......

Nope- we can't live outdoors and be truly 'clean room' sanitary--- and we can make ourselves nutz trying to sanitize 'the air'. :O(

ETA - found it right off -- for anyone else that wants to check it out here's the link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...or-resistance-to-mareks-disease#post_13614325

if it was in an earlier post in this thread--I missed it.
 
Last edited:
I read an interesting debate elsewhere yesterday about a poultry breeder who is battling Mareks in his flock, but announced his intention to continue showing his birds in the foreseeable future, regardless of the situation. I have not experienced Mareks and pray I never will, but I have read enough about it to know that is a serious condition and can easily be spread around via the infected birds' dander. Apparently this breeder had been told that "Mareks is everywhere" and it's o.k. for him to take his birds from his farm to a show and it will not risk exposing the other exhibitors' birds.

Now, the debate is: if someone currently, or recently dealed with Mareks on their farm, is it o.k. for them to take birds to a poultry show, where judges will handle their and other exhibitors' birds? Where the birds will be in close proximity to other exhibitors' birds?

I've heard completely contrasting answers to the above questions and I'm curious to hear what you all think.
hi!
as a new "out of the brooder" , all i can say to that is, thanks to comments like his, poultry showing seems as dangerous as, swaps
(dont know anything about them- but sounds suspicious) and random bird additions.
caf.gif

using good judgement and common sense is as plain to me, i hope, as most of byc 'ers, let alone the flock masters.
old.gif


i love this place and am so grateful for the info and people who participate here.
love.gif


he should be slapped!
smack.gif


tammy
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom