Mareks, showing poultry and safety precautions

[seminolewind]

Quote:
It's just so hard to find.

Quote:
It's a shame it's so hard to find. Maybe you should put a link at the bottom of your posts.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I think that who ever plans on showing vaccinates their chickens at birth for Marek's. It's got to start somewhere and it might as well start with you protecting your own birds. If everyone thought that way, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[ChicKat]

hi!
as a new "out of the brooder" , all i can say to that is, thanks to comments like his, poultry showing seems as dangerous as, swaps
(dont know anything about them- but sounds suspicious) and random bird additions.

using good judgement and common sense is as plain to me, i hope, as most of byc 'ers, let alone the flock masters.

i love this place and am so grateful for the info and people who participate here.

he should be slapped!

tammy

hi Tammy -

after I thought about what you were saying -- I realized that I have a different viewpoint.

If a person had a chicken die from Marek's - I don't think that they are then or should be barred from showing chickens..or selling chickens. Questions and scenarios arise, does that mean forever? Does that mean for the 12-weeks (I think it's 12) incubation period, for a year etc.etc. I don't believe anyone would want to show a sick chicken, they just wouldn't show well. At a poultry exhibition in the event a chicken shows signs of illness it is removed. I also think that a show would be very stressful for some chickens and could trigger an illness that was not there earlier.

All the focus is on the virus and little is on the stressors. There is a quote 'there are two kinds of flocks, those that have had Merek's and those that will get Merek's '.

I had a pullet that was perfect at he same time a show 3 1/2 hours drive away was going on. Now that she is laying - she has lost some of that bloom - her legs aren't as yellow, her face isn't as red..etc. -- She is still a prize pullet to me - but would probably be beat out in a show ring by one that hadn't yet begun to lay. -- due to the changes from pullet to layer that occur in a chicken. The reason I didn't want to take her to that show is that she is indespensible to me - I didn't want to have her exposed to any diseases, and more importantly, I didn't want her to be stressed by being removed from her flock- being driven 3 1/2 hours -- spending all the needed time in a show cage, and then driven 3 1/2 hours home. So I choose not to show her. But the same show next year will not be at the same point in the pullet's life. If I had chosen to take her -- and if a chicken elsewhere on the property had seemed to have Merek's or even if one had died of Merek's in a different location, different pen - let's say during the previous month, does that mean that it would be wrong to show this chicken from a different pen on a different part of the property?

Some years ago (2011) I had a death from Merek's and had necropsy done. Does that mean I should never show my chickens?

In January - when the Polar Vortex was going on - I purchased two very rare cockerels and they were shipped to me. Both arrived ill - and subsequently one died. I think it was the stress that weakened him - and I think had I had a necropsy done to the tune of $80.00+ - it would have shown Merek's. I don't think that the flock that I purchased them from was infested with Merek's at all. It was within less than a week after arrival as I recall - the cockerels were in pet carriers in the spare bathroom at that time. When one needed to be culled, I needed to take him out of the house past a brooder in the kitchen with growing chicks. So possibly he shed dander in the air. The chicks were fine - and the other cockerel in similar conditions in shipment - (maybe one was more toward the colder side of the plane during the flight?)--- So the one that lived - a very rare breed--- could I never put him in a show? He was in the same room, breathed the same air - never got the disease.

See where I'm going -- where do you draw the line and were are the gray areas.

Rather I think that the cockerel that lived would be a good breeder because he is resistant..he never had symptoms of Merek's.... If eveyone wiped out every chicken that had either survived Merek's or sat on a perch next to one that died of Merek's - I think that it would empower the Merek's virus. More importantly to my way of thinking is how to reduce the stress on the chickens- so that they don't succumb in the first place. JMO

 

[hammytammy]

hi Tammy -

after I thought about what you were saying -- I realized that I have a different viewpoint.

If a person had a chicken die from Marek's - I don't think that they are then or should be barred from showing chickens..or selling chickens. Questions and scenarios arise, does that mean forever? Does that mean for the 12-weeks (I think it's 12) incubation period, for a year etc.etc. I don't believe anyone would want to show a sick chicken, they just wouldn't show well. At a poultry exhibition in the event a chicken shows signs of illness it is removed. I also think that a show would be very stressful for some chickens and could trigger an illness that was not there earlier.

All the focus is on the virus and little is on the stressors. There is a quote 'there are two kinds of flocks, those that have had Merek's and those that will get Merek's '.

I had a pullet that was perfect at he same time a show 3 1/2 hours drive away was going on. Now that she is laying - she has lost some of that bloom - her legs aren't as yellow, her face isn't as red..etc. -- She is still a prize pullet to me - but would probably be beat out in a show ring by one that hadn't yet begun to lay. -- due to the changes from pullet to layer that occur in a chicken. The reason I didn't want to take her to that show is that she is indespensible to me - I didn't want to have her exposed to any diseases, and more importantly, I didn't want her to be stressed by being removed from her flock- being driven 3 1/2 hours -- spending all the needed time in a show cage, and then driven 3 1/2 hours home. So I choose not to show her. But the same show next year will not be at the same point in the pullet's life. If I had chosen to take her -- and if a chicken elsewhere on the property had seemed to have Merek's or even if one had died of Merek's in a different location, different pen - let's say during the previous month, does that mean that it would be wrong to show this chicken from a different pen on a different part of the property?

Some years ago (2011) I had a death from Merek's and had necropsy done. Does that mean I should never show my chickens?

In January - when the Polar Vortex was going on - I purchased two very rare cockerels and they were shipped to me. Both arrived ill - and subsequently one died. I think it was the stress that weakened him - and I think had I had a necropsy done to the tune of $80.00+ - it would have shown Merek's. I don't think that the flock that I purchased them from was infested with Merek's at all. It was within less than a week after arrival as I recall - the cockerels were in pet carriers in the spare bathroom at that time. When one needed to be culled, I needed to take him out of the house past a brooder in the kitchen with growing chicks. So possibly he shed dander in the air. The chicks were fine - and the other cockerel in similar conditions in shipment - (maybe one was more toward the colder side of the plane during the flight?)--- So the one that lived - a very rare breed--- could I never put him in a show? He was in the same room, breathed the same air - never got the disease.

See where I'm going -- where do you draw the line and were are the gray areas.

Rather I think that the cockerel that lived would be a good breeder because he is resistant..he never had symptoms of Merek's.... If eveyone wiped out every chicken that had either survived Merek's or sat on a perch next to one that died of Merek's - I think that it would empower the Merek's virus. More importantly to my way of thinking is how to reduce the stress on the chickens- so that they don't succumb in the first place. JMO

hi

i read your post one quick time through and want to think it (and read it again) it through.
i want to respond and am very glad you shared your thoughts.
im Sure ill gain some new perspective or confirmation of my own.
ty
tammy
(ps --getting ready for a storm)

 

[Nambroth]

Remember, this was originally about someone showing birds from a flock where other birds were showing current, active Marek's symptoms.

If a flock is without symptoms for some months or years, it does become more of a grey area. From current understanding, such flocks could still spread it, but it is generally unclear on how likely that becomes over time when the virus is latent.

I DO however think it is irresponsible for a breeder to not at least let customers know if they have had a confirmed Marek's problem in the past. Let your customer decide if they want to take the risk or not.

 

[ChicKat]

Remember, this was originally about someone showing birds from a flock where other birds were showing current, active Marek's symptoms.

If a flock is without symptoms for some months or years, it does become more of a grey area. From current understanding, such flocks could still spread it, but it is generally unclear on how likely that becomes over time when the virus is latent.

I DO however think it is irresponsible for a breeder to not at least let customers know if they have had a confirmed Marek's problem in the past. Let your customer decide if they want to take the risk or not.

That is a good idea...and probably dates and results would help a potential buyer...I guess a buyer should also ask such questions - as well as looking at parent birds or photos of the parent birds.

 

[speckledhen]

Remember, this was originally about someone showing birds from a flock where other birds were showing current, active Marek's symptoms.

If a flock is without symptoms for some months or years, it does become more of a grey area. From current understanding, such flocks could still spread it, but it is generally unclear on how likely that becomes over time when the virus is latent.

I DO however think it is irresponsible for a breeder to not at least let customers know if they have had a confirmed Marek's problem in the past. Let your customer decide if they want to take the risk or not.

I agree with you, Jen. And if this disease is as prevalent as most are saying, then could be the flock they are going to has already had Marek's and they are not concerned about the risk, though there are different strains. Conversely, an MD-negative bird going into a carrier flock would probably come down with it. Most of the time, people know if they've had a problem with Marek's.

 

[chooks4life]

I DO however think it is irresponsible for a breeder to not at least let customers know if they have had a confirmed Marek's problem in the past. Let your customer decide if they want to take the risk or not.

Might be a good idea if someone started making and selling some signs perhaps, that people can put up at their gates so fellow poultry owners know for sure whether or not they are risking becoming exposed to certain diseases if they set foot on that land, i.e. if the flock has been tested for Marek's and has a positive result, then they could put up a corresponding sign as warning on the gate, possibly with a little read up to educate those who don't know.

Murky and risky ground there, I know. Unscrupulous sorts will always find a way to make their malignant influence known to as many as possible, one way or another. Does open people up to some kind of external judging too, but theoretically honest people have nothing to fear. In practice, it's a bit more complicated.

Just an idea, anyway.

Best wishes.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: Weeeelll, in theory, you'd hope that was true, however, having been the victim of certain prejudices in areas of life in spite of my honesty, I would have to say my own experience has taught me otherwise. So, I've learned to play my cards close to the vest in most cases. I mean, in effect, a scarlet "M" on the gate? Mmmm, not ready to agree that's the way to go. I do want to put up a more official looking biosecurity sign at my front gate, further down the driveway than the hand painted one I now have, to make folks think. But, then, the reader would have to know what the heck biosecurity is to get any benefit from it.

 

[seminolewind]

You know how people are. They go to swaps and auctions aware of Marek's, but seems everyone's middle name is "except for me". There have been illnesses wiped out by science and vaccinations. I believe there's even one (Newcastle?) that if you vaccinate the hen she passes immunity to the chicks.

Marek's has been around for over a hundred years. The best thing to do at this time is VACCINATE. Protect your own. If people have prize birds, they should be vaccinating too.

There's no way to tell who is in the next cage, or who sells positive birds. If some conscientious breeder or seller always vaccinates, they will never know if they are selling Marek's birds.

Vaccinate your birds. Protect them because no one else cares whether your birds are protected or not. But you (we) do. If you are positive that your flock has had exposure to Marek's, there's no law that says you can't buy, sell, or show. But morally , if aware of it, you may not want to expose others. If you buy adults, make sure they've been vaccinated or pass them up.

Like being a medical person , all people we treat in hospitals or doctor's office are assumed to have AIDS. And we take precautions with everyone like they do. No excuses.

Since no one cares about whether my (our) chickens get exposed to Marek's, I care. Mine will forever be vaccinated and I will continue to tell others to vaccinate. In fact , we see many many new owners getting vaccinated chicks which is a very responsible thing to do.