My 6 year old was fed Ham in school today. advice?

[welsummerchicks]

It is not about the pig's habits, it is a religious rule from thousands of years ago.

The rule just shows a person has chosen this way to remember his devotion. The rule doesn't change because pigs are free of mud and poo or not. It's the idea of putting ones devotion into practice that makes a religious observance significant to the person who does it. A person feels, remembers and acts consciously to show his reverence for his faith.

And in doing so a person gets something back - something of value, something that builds his faith and his devotion. He gets over that little bump in the road and maintains his observance, and he feels good as a person who sticks with things and makes good choices.

I would just send a very polite nice note to the teacher and the school -

'Jimmy told me he was served ham at school Tuesday. I'd like to let teachers and admin at the school know that we in our family do not eat any pork or ham products, as part of our religious observances. My apologies to those who were not informed ahead of time, of our family's observances. Thank you for your future cooperation, Best Regards, Mrs. Jimmy's Mom'.

I think one of the key things about people is - they forget. You can tell them something that is very important to you, even several times, they just have a lot of things they're trying to do at once, and they forget.

A religious observance is really a very personal, private thing, and in fact, the gentle reminders, the very kind little nudges we give to our children, that's all just a part of that remembering and finding comfort and support in keeping those observances. People develop a 'style' as they go through life and deal with more different situations, of how to just very gently steer their way through the little bumps in the road that come up with these observances.

And that is really a part of the observance, that little gentle negotiation with the rest of the world that 'doesn't'.

Dietary needs put children in an awkward position occasionally. I think in some situations, they'll just eat a food that for religious or medical reasons they shouldn't - just because the other kids are doing it. There are different ways teacher can react - just matter of fact and simple is probably best. 'No, don't give Jim that ham - he doesn't eat ham, thanks for reminding me Jim - good job'.

 

[FireTigeris]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kashrut.html

that one is pretty good,

lets see-

Animals that may not be eaten

Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications. Sheep, cattle, goats and deer are kosher.

Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden. Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43.

As mentioned above, any product derived from these forbidden animals, such as their milk, eggs, fat, or organs, also cannot be eaten. Rennet, an enzyme used to harden cheese, is often obtained from non-kosher animals, thus kosher hard cheese can be difficult to find.

But I really remember a stipulation that if you are a GUEST somewhere and -unknowingly- consume something unclean that you were exempted

Here's the original article: http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Do All Jews Keep Kosher?

According to the 2000 National Jewish Population Survey (NJPS), 21% of American Jews report that they keep kosher in the home. This includes the vast majority of people who identify themselves as Orthodox, as well as many Conservative and Reconstructionist Jews and some Reform Jews.

Part of that 21% keeps kosher at home, but eat non-kosher food out of the home to one degree or another. Some will eat cooked food in a restaurant or a non-kosher home, as long as the meal is either vegetarian or uses only kosher meat and no dairy products. Some will eat non-kosher meat in restaurants, but only if the meat comes from a kosher animal and is not served with dairy products. Some will go... dare I say? ... whole hog and eat bacon cheeseburgers out of the home while keeping a strictly kosher household.

Even within the home, standards of kashrut that people employ vary. The strictest people will eat only foods that have reliable Orthodox kosher certification, eating only glatt-kosher certified meats and specially certified dairy products. They will not eat cooked food in a restaurant unless the restaurant has reliable Orthodox certification, and they are unlikely to accept an invitation to dinner from anyone who is not known to share their high standards. Others are more lenient, accepting less reliable certifications without question or "ingredients reading," accepting grocery store items that have no certification but do not contain any identifiably non-kosher ingredients.

As rabbi/humorist Jack Moline noted, "Everyone who keeps kosher will tell you that his version is the only correct version. Everyone else is either a fanatic or a heretic." (Growing Up Jewish, 1987). There is a lot of truth in this humorous observation. I have no doubt that some are calling me a heretic for even acknowledging the existence of lower standards, because kosher is kosher, and if you don't live up to my standards then you aren't keeping kosher at all.

Gosh, I swear there's a thing that if you are unknowingly fed something or currently a guest residing outside of your home (technically Judea I guess) that it was not great but not going to get you in tons of trouble.

-It be in Leviticus (Law), or Deuteronomy (covenant) . Towards the middle of Deuteronomy if there at all 20-26ish?.​

 

[chickensducks&agoose]

Quote:
That is so funny, and while I'm sure she didn't even consider it, i can totally picture her rubbing her hands together in glee. Interestingly enough, we already have a parent teacher conference scheduled (coincidentally) for today. I just think that if the teachers are feeding the kids stuff other than random candies and cupcakes on birthdays (which I'd rather she didn't eat just due to the questionable sanitation of some of those kitchens

) that they should have sent a note home explaining their intentions. and if it turned out to be turkey ham, i'd be a lot happier, but I doubt it was. She came home all excited, "we ate green eggs and green ham today!" and I was like "Ham?!? Real Ham?" she said it was chewy and not sugary, so it certainly wasn't hammy candy.... she was pretty sure it was meat. I said "Sweetie, we don't eat ham, we don't eat pigs at all." and she said "Everyone else ate it, and the eggs were good. they tasted green." so she's not in trouble, but she does know we don't eat pork products..i guess she just forgot for a minute. so what I'll do is mention to the teacher that we don't eat pork at all, so if there's any more surprise meat treats, to please let me know first. I pack all her lunches and snacks, just to avoid this kind of thing.

and as far as piggy cleanliness, i think that pigs are super smart, which further reinforces our reasons to avoid pork, so I don't think that pigs are horribly gross or anything.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Different groups follow the rules put forth to different degrees and interpret an 'accident' differently.

And for what it's worth, I'm not really sure that the desire to follow the law has very much to do with avoiding punishment at all.

It's a devotion, basically. A person doesn't do it in order to avoid punishment or disapproval from a religious figure.

I guess it's hard to explain.

 

[FireTigeris]

Quote:
True but we are talking about a 6 year old, not a person considered an adult.

They really could have done the butter battle instead... and served the bread and butter- IIRC.

 

[chickensducks&agoose]

I don't think that G-d or anyone would be mad at a 6 year old for eating green eggs and ham at school. i just want to avoid it happening in the future. Just like most other religious people, we have our own way of following G-d's laws, we don't stress out too much over errors, and have only one set of dishes. But we do avoid Pork products, it's usually easy too!

 

[SillyChicken]

It would make more sence, at least to someone like me, if you were to describe it as, "pigs were chosen as a restricted food to symbolize devotion to the religion"... not because they're omnivore or because they have cloven hooves or cause they're unclean. Because chicken and fish are also omnivore and not all that clean, so to eat these and not pork for that reason (omnivore) seems hypocritical to me. Not trying to be disrespectful in anyway... it just seems to be a more straight forward way of describing the restriction without leaving someone like me with other questions.



Sorry I guess you asked for advise and not opinions...

! I'd write or call the teacher, let her know what your daughters restrictions are and let it go at that.

 

[FireTigeris]

chickensducks&agoose :

I don't think that G-d or anyone would be mad at a 6 year old for eating green eggs and ham at school. i just want to avoid it happening in the future. Just like most other religious people, we have our own way of following G-d's laws, we don't stress out too much over errors, and have only one set of dishes. But we do avoid Pork products, it's usually easy too!

Exactly- I'd just tell her (teacher) about it in the conference.

'Jimmy told me he was served ham at school Tuesday. I'd like to let teachers and admin at the school know that we in our family do not eat any pork or ham products, as part of our religious observances. My apologies to those who were not informed ahead of time, of our family's observances. Thank you for your future cooperation, Best Regards, Mrs. Jimmy's Mom'.

Just like WC said-

((I only know three that have two fridges- I'd hope the different compartments would be far enough away))​

 

[welsummerchicks]

"It would make more sence, at least to someone like me, if you were to describe it as, "pigs were chosen as a restricted food to symbolize devotion to the religion"... not because they're omnivore or because they have cloven hooves or cause they're unclean"

By definition and by ethics and general social courtesy and decent manners, a religious observance is not explained, apologized for or bent around and re-explained until something that a non observer approves of as a reason to do it, is hit upon.

It's nice that you folks like pigs, but the fact is that religious observance is not primarily about doing something that is strictly and absolutely necessary in a practical sense. In other words, it doesn't matter if it originally had some practical use thousands of years ago - it transcended that long, long ago. Conditions change, our world changes, and yet we still seek the inspiration and devotion that arose in that very, very early time.

All religions of all the world, they all provide us with ways to just remember, in daily life, to put into practice, to create that agreement between ourselves and a higher spiritual meaning.

Thousands and thousands of years ago, a deeply religious man who devoted his whole life to what he experienced as a profound transformation, set down rules that people today still choose to follow as their covenant, their personal committment to their faith.

That creates a connection between his inspiration and love from thousands of years ago and our very different modern world, and that is both a wonderful and a transforming thing.

How incredible that there could be such a continuity between a dynamic, determined and deeply religious man who lived thousands of years ago in a very harsh and different world, and that little CHILD in HIS OR HER school today. What amazing things love and faith and devotion do for us.

 

[FireTigeris]

*whispers* She's a girl. */whispers*