My gut says botulism, but could use some help

[Shadrach]

I feel guilty just writing this but a visit to my lovely vet Gloria here costs on average 20 Euros and if I hadn't had enough money to cover a particular treatment she has accepted one of the lamps I make.

 

[Nksg75]

I'm so sorry to see Mrs Lee is such a state. That must be heart breaking for you. Sadly, the most likely diagnosis is Marek's, especially when you have a history of it in your flock. It may be that this bird has been carrying the disease in it's dormant phase for months or even years. It may be that she has had a minor outbreak before and you have not noticed it. The vaccine will not prevent them from getting it but should prevent the more serious tumours. It can exhibit as something as minimal as being unable to keep one eyelid fully open and sometimes recover within a day or two when the disease goes into remission, only to resurface when the bird's system is low. Moulting or bad weather/shorter days/confinement etc are often triggers in older birds as well as the usual trigger of adolescent males running amok in the flock (not sure if any of those apply other than moult) and secondary outbreaks are usually more severe and prolonged than initial ones if they survive.
The best that I can suggest is to keep her well fed. I would give her a warm wet mash made with chick crumb rather than layer feed because it has higher protein and less calcium and she is unlikely to be laying at this time so she doesn't need the extra calcium. I would also mix some scrambled egg into it and the Nutri Drench. Make her as comfortable as you can and keep your fingers crossed. If this is Marek's she will actively be shedding the virus whilst she is symptomatic, so take precautions not to transfer infected material to your other birds. I have not had one as incapacitated as that recover from an outbreak but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I would guess the main risk is that she will aspirate due to being unable to keep her head and body in the correct position.
I wish you luck with her and will be keeping my fingers crossed.

Thank you.
Yes, it’s certainly possible that this is mereks, however is it odd that she shows no sign of what we had before? Meaning the typical split legged?
Also I have never had them go done this fast before.
Hmmm...

 

[Nksg75]

I feel guilty just writing this but a visit to my lovely vet Gloria here costs on average 20 Euros and if I hadn't had enough money to cover a particular treatment she has accepted one of the lamps I make.

Don’t feel bad, thank you for replying.
Your right, all I have to offfer is eggs or my kids! Hmm, mabye she will want a child!(JK!)
She may say no to the eggs after seeing this pathetic chicken!!
I am only playing with you.
Seriously though, I will call them now and see if they could possibly work with me.

 

[lilmillefleur]

So sorry for your hen. She is so beautiful, I hate to see her like that. I hope she pulls through!

 

[rebrascora]

Thank you.
Yes, it’s certainly possible that this is mereks, however is it odd that she shows no sign of what we had before? Meaning the typical split legged?
Also I have never had them go done this fast before.
Hmmm...

I have rarely had two Marek's birds show the same symptoms or the same progression. Some have come on sudden and severe and recovered just as quickly but suffered secondary outbreaks weeks, months or years later. Others progressively get worse. Some take months of supportive care to make a limited recovery. I've only had a few with the classic split's posture. I've had some with just a dropped wing and a couple with wry neck and/or wry tail as well as leg paralysis. I've also had some die suddenly from internal tumours with no prior symptoms. In my experience there are no hard and fast rules with Marek's. Of course it may not be in this case, but it is by far the most likely cause.

Don 't feel bad if your finances don't run to veterinary care for your chickens. Mine don't and even if they did, I would be loath to visit one because so few have more knowledge than is available on this site. I prefer to improve my own knowledge by reading and doing research and performing necropsies on birds that don't make it.

 

[Eggcessive]

I kind of doubt that the vet would know more about what is causing the wry neck and her being unable to hold herself up. Wry neck is more typical of Mareks, and not botulism. Botulism is more of a flaccid or limp neck, not the twisting we see in wry neck. Wry neck is a neurological symptom, seen in many different conditions, such as head or neck injury, vitamin E or B1 (thiamine) deficiency, and is often seen in Mareks, fowl cholera, Newcastles disease, and others. Newcastles is rarely found in the US, but there was an outbreak in S. California earlier this year, the first in over 25 years. I still think it is more than likely Mareks, but glad you are exploring the other possibilities. I don’t know if you would like to try some vitamin E (400 IU) and some B1 thiamine daily with a tiny bit of egg for selenium to nelp with E uptake.

 

[PouleChick]

I'm so sorry to hear about your lovely hen doing so badly

I feel guilty just writing this but a visit to my lovely vet Gloria here costs on average 20 Euros and if I hadn't had enough money to cover a particular treatment she has accepted one of the lamps I make.

That is amazing I'm guessing ours won't be like that! I'll have to ask my friend who has sheep what he charges!

 

[Shadrach]

I'm so sorry to hear about your lovely hen doing so badly

That is amazing I'm guessing ours won't be like that! I'll have to ask my friend who has sheep what he charges!

She's lovely and she thinks I'm mad. I am the only person now who takes chickens to her.
She specialized in fowl when she qualified. She's shown me how to do things, supplied me with medical kit and bust a gut to get me drugs that just don't get used here for chickens.
Here a sick chicken is a dead chicken very quickly.
I just wish I could magic her over for Nksg75.

 

[micstrachan]

My loving thoughts are with you and Mrs. Lee. In the last video, so wondered if she was thirsty or hungry with what she was doing with her beak. Have you seen the wry neck videos where they steady the chixken’s head by grasping the neck feathers so she can eat?

 

[Nksg75]

My loving thoughts are with you and Mrs. Lee. In the last video, so wondered if she was thirsty or hungry with what she was doing with her beak. Have you seen the wry neck videos where they steady the chixken’s head by grasping the neck feathers so she can eat?

No, I have not seen those videos. I will have to look for them.
I have been tube feeding her a mixture of water , yougurt, poly visol, vitamin B, and a 20% protein feed.
I have been doing this 4 times a day, and she is more alert lateLy. She has pooped about 5 times so far.(I have a backup of laundry, and probably should get her a diaper of sorts) I have her in a poncho sort of thing that is preventing her from suffocating herself if her head would fall under her own body.
Her neck is still flaccid, but she appears to be much more alert lately. She even tried to peck at a mealworm in my hand. I ended up having to put it in her beak, and she swallowed several of them.
I was waiting for that 48 hour window for her to survive, and she did. Now I just wish she could somehow show me that she will make a recovery so I can be sure it was botulism after all, and not something else(I am crossing my fingers my gut was right, and she doesn't have Mereks)

I believe she may have been thirsty in the video. I have started dipping her beak in water, and she will drink some, but I feel as much as she and I dislike tube feeding, it's what she needs. There is no way I could get enough food and water in her simply by a syringe, and it would take me 10 times as long to do it.