Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kev]

Well I guess that you should get something that is like black copper but with lot more buff/brown with sweetie in F1.

That is always a hard one to predict. It;s because there are two main genetic blacks- one is Extended black, it makes the bird pretty black all by itself.. many hens even are solid colored. Here, a good example are BC Marans, many roosters with color limited to hackles, wing patch or a minimal amount on saddles. Crosses with Extended black tend to be pretty black, even with a black tail buff.

The other common kind of black is Birchen. They have a lot more color.. crosses with a buff potentially could give birds with a lot more "color" especially if they have other certain genes like Pg and Db...

a great example of black crossed with colored chickens are black sex links- which are most often a cross of RIR with barred rocks.

 

[Kev]

@Kev I have a lavender genetics question.

My single Lavender Ameraucana is looking like he'll be a cockerel (I named him - Goodwin). I would like to cross him in with my NNs to add not only the blue egg gene, but also pea comb-type feather pattern.



I find myself confused by the fact that technically these are black birds when thinking of the potential results.

Can you advise crossings? Current thoughts are to cross him with Trinity (black NN with NN phenotype, large bird), maybe Mystique (dark partridge with "gypsy" face [sorry, I don't know the non-offensive term for that], Nn phenotype, large bird), and maybe Sweetie (black tail buff, NN phenotype, large bird). I'm also wondering about crossing him with the two Nn Aloha NNs.

What can I expect? Does this sound reasonable? (I realize it will be F2 onward where I will see any lavender phenotypes, etc.)

- Ant Farm

Great pic!

Phil did a great job at covering the basics. The simplest answer as for crossing blacks with just about any color or pattern is to expect black chicks, with some color showing as they feather up. How much color is very variable, partly due to their being two different kinds of black as just recently explained as response to Phil.

The only "exceptions" would be any dominant genes that affect black.. like dominant white or blue. I don't think you have any birds with either of those though..?

I agree for solid lavenders, it is much less of a 'headache' to outcross with any solid blacks. This is because of the various genes for helping with covering up colored areas are both recessive or dominant. There is also a degree of sex influence with hens generally showing less color than roosters- for example two birds genetically exactly the same: hen would appear to be solid black.. but the twin rooster would show color. That is very frustrating for someone trying to breed solid blacks(lavenders and blues too)

Are there any goals you have mind as for the lavender gene? Solid lavender, Isabel, porcelain etc?

 

[Kev]

@Fire Ant Farm

Breeding lavender yo reds and buffs will dilute the gold to a straw color. I learned this early when I had some lavender Ameraucdbas. Got rid of them because they were just a little oversized bantams. Haven't lucked out and found anymore lavender anything that I can afford.


Okay some pictures of some of the girls that I took today.


This is my young black Pullet. Full sister to the black cockerel above.


Here is a beautiful Pullet. Blue Birchen. Her mans was a Blue Red hen.


Here is what supposed to be a sex link Pullet. This one is making me think a cockerel instead. Any opinions on it?

Her mother was a Silver NN. Looks a lot like a Brien Leghorn hen except being Naked Necked. Dad was a mostly red rooster but had some mottling on wings and breast.

I hope you can see the colors in these. The photos turned out quite dark. I edited these to be a little lighter so you could see the patterns and right colors.

That's a sex linked pairing for sure.. problem solved.

Usually in birds with her color pattern, the roosters have a solid black breast or brown/black spangled with a duckwing. I'm not seeing any strong black on her breast... would go with pullet for that reason without knowing the parentage.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
Thanks! (both Phil and Kev)

Honestly, my goals are to take advantage of this Lavender Ameraucana cockerel (that I got as an "extra" with the other chicks) and get something interesting mixed in with a subset of my NNs to see what happens (also sort of an excuse to keep him, because he's gorgeous and sweet).

So, just getting his blue egg and pea comb genetics swirled in there would be good/fun, and I'm wondering about where I could go to enjoy the lavender aspect as well. No specific goal, it would just be fun to have a flock rooster down the road that carried lav and threw interesting chicks with other girls that may carry it... Any color diluted would be lovely, I would think.

As for pea comb, he's what I've got on hand and I'd love to have clean-necked NNs.

The double bonus of crossing him with Trinity and Mystique is that, not only are they already dark, but they are my largest girls, along with Sweetie, and if I'm going to cross the Ameraucana in, I want to at least try to give the hybrids a bit of a size boost compared to crossing with a smaller girl.

So... I guess my "plans" are to throw him in, genetically, and see what comes out! (Not that I won't keep records, of course.)

It appeals to me to have a flock that has the blue egg gene, pea comb, and lavender gene all floating around ready to pop out in something interesting (I just want to think of the most interesting pairings to make in F1). I may even give him some of my little cream legbar girls, as I seem to have a relative surplus of those around at the moment. Crazy, right?

- Ant Farm

 

[Kev]

Thanks! (both Phil and Kev)

Honestly, my goals are to take advantage of this Lavender Ameraucana cockerel (that I got as an "extra" with the other chicks) and get something interesting mixed in with a subset of my NNs to see what happens (also sort of an excuse to keep him, because he's gorgeous and sweet).

So, just getting his blue egg and pea comb genetics swirled in there would be good/fun, and I'm wondering about where I could go to enjoy the lavender aspect as well. No specific goal, it would just be fun to have a flock rooster down the road that carried lav and threw interesting chicks with other girls that may carry it... Any color diluted would be lovely, I would think.

As for pea comb, he's what I've got on hand and I'd love to have clean-necked NNs.

The double bonus of crossing him with Trinity and Mystique is that, not only are they already dark, but they are my largest girls, along with Sweetie, and if I'm going to cross the Ameraucana in, I want to at least try to give the hybrids a bit of a size boost compared to crossing with a smaller girl.

So... I guess my "plans" are to throw him in, genetically, and see what comes out! (Not that I won't keep records, of course.)

It appeals to me to have a flock that has the blue egg gene, pea comb, and lavender gene all floating around ready to pop out in something interesting (I just want to think of the most interesting pairings to make in F1). I may even give him some of my little cream legbar girls, as I seem to have a relative surplus of those around at the moment. Crazy, right?

- Ant Farm

No not crazy! Creative, not bound by silly rules 'whomever' decided etc, you go!

For interesting colors down the road, breeding with anything "not black" would be good. I admit it- would love to see lavender Alohas and legbars.... also there aren't too many 'soft colored' NN so throwing in lavender would make your flock pretty unique in that aspect.

Completely understand the weight concerns of crossing with smaller birds. It is not easy to increase size yet relatively easy to lose size, especially in large/meat fowl.

Forgot to cover "gypsy face".... yeah, unfortunately it is the only name I've seen for this trait.... unlike for every thing else which seems to have several names. If there was ever another name, would have used it instead... There is also an offensive name for a certain line of gamecocks...

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
Thanks! So you are saying, essentially, to cross Goodwin with EVERYBODY, right?

He's going to be a busy, busy boy...

- Ant Farm

 

[Phill98]

Pretty good!

Sweetie with lavender would be one of several color patterns called Isabel.  Isabel is labeled to birds that are buff lavender,  lavender partridge, basically almost any non solid lavender, with the big exception of lavender mille fleurs being called Porcelains.

Lavender very clearly dilutes buff, btw.. unlike with blue.

Ameraucana type is relatively easy to recreate.  Get almost any medium/large breed with clean legs and throw pea comb and beard on it and it will look extremely Ameraucana-like.   You could even use large fowl NN as a cross to get there.

It's because they have a rather simple type, a lot of their distinctive look is from just having a pea comb plus beard.   Especially if you use birds with very large beards, they usually also have the "bull necked" look.

I really like how the breed looks overall. Although I LOVE beards, pea comb and blue eggs, I really like their body and in my opinion if chicken doesn't have colour that you like, if she has great body, she is beautiful ( at least I look it like that, does anybody else?)

Oh and the No1. colour that I would like to get them in would defffinitepy be recessive white-currently my favourite colour along with black and mottled. I had one in that colour and believe me guys, they look like aliens when sun is very bright, they glow!

 

[DesertChic]

Thanks! So you are saying, essentially, to cross Goodwin with EVERYBODY, right?

He's going to be a busy, busy boy...

- Ant Farm

And very....satisfied.

 

[Pensmaster]

Thanks! So you are saying, essentially, to cross Goodwin with EVERYBODY, right? 

He's going to be a busy, busy boy...



- Ant Farm 

Go go go Goodwin

 

[maralpz2006]

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my new babies

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these are the parent of the first pic.

and this is the mother and same father for the second pic