And to be fair on my end I have raised meat and egg chickens for 10 years and only noticed the labeling that I speak of the last time I bought feed 2 years ago there was a difference according to my hens because they stoped eating the Dumor so I changed to Purina. Last time I for some reason looked the bags and noticed the same material and stiching and then I looked at the label and called BS on the difference. In the mean time TSC has started selling the newer brand as well as the Omega-3 Purina and now organic, so maybe they changed vendors from what they used to use- I am sure it happens often.
By the way, I was not calling anyone trash.
But with my experience with Dumor, I won't use it again. That may have been just a bad batch or something. It us possible that there is a new vendor packaging it for TS.
Kev brought up about the different lines of NNs and being crossed with so many other breeds. This has me frustrated. I like this breed and may very well stick with it but I am not completely satisfied with the Rooster I have. I would like to have more breast meat on him. I also would like to get some of the bloodline of hen that lays the 300 + eggs I read about from time to time. If I could do that I think I would have the perfect bird for my needs, but wouldn't everybody. And it isn't just this breed, I've dealt with this with Barred Rock and RIR.
From what I read the exceptional NN is the Translyvanian NN, but who has legitiamate stock of that back ground and are they as good as they claim? Someone on ebay sells Transylvanian eggs and claim they came from over there, but who knows? Also claim year round eggs and 300+ a year and almost anything else you want to ask about can probably be claimed, especially with hatching eggs because they likely won't hatch after shipment anyway- heck of an excuse to stretch the truth a little.
I've tried the eggs for sale list on BYC and am finding it very hard to navigate- what is the easiest way and is anyone on here selling Broiler NN? Or would one be better off to just locate some Cornish stock and breed it into the program? If so, will the chest meat show up at all or maybe in just the hens, will the egg laying drop from 300 to 125? Will there be the same body build which leads to breeding problems later on? Someone out there has good stock and evidently has no trouble selling them because they sure are not having to advertise. But I feel confident good stock is out there. PM me if you have it or know where it is.
Yeah, best not to regard those claims as reliable... ha.
Several of us are in the same boat as you. I'd looked on and off for the big heavy NN- my very first one was from McMurray and she was a huge heavy hen but seems since then the stock has shifted into layer type- lighter weights and smaller.
S&G poultry has broiler NN however they require 100 chick minimum which is way too many..
I've went ahead in starting crosses with this very idea, bigger heavier NN using freedom and black rangers plus two cornish x picked up as chicks at feed store last fall, however they seem to be the slow broiler type instead of the massive monsters. The partridge rooster I recently put up was cross of NN over a black ranger hen.
Your birds are still pretty young so both the cockerels and pullets are figuring things out so all mating may resemble rape for a while. Eventually you'll notice when the pullets are more accepting of the cockerel trying to mate with them, and when they're trying to flat out reject the affections by either running away screaming or even turning and challenging him. That said, excessive mating, even when 'accepted' by a female, takes its toll. I finally had to separate my EE rooster, Chewey, from his flock because he literally would not stop mating his favorite hen. She would run screeching straight for me or for another larger rooster, begging for protection, but Chewey would literally mate with her a dozen times inside of five minutes or less. Not only is her back completely bald, but so is her cap. And sometimes her apparent acquiescence to him resulted in other roosters running over to gang rape her too. She would just huddle on the ground, having assumed the position, and cry out while she was repeatedly mounted. It was really quite awful to watch.
Oh, he's not that bad (and fortunately, he's the only boy out there). Helpful example. I don't think I would have to ask for input about that situation...
It's the clearest when the girls are actively laying, because the typical pullet/hen in lay *wants* to be bred- how often is variable and she voluntarily squats before a rooster either out of the blue or when the rooster makes a 'mating intention' move plus she willingly squats if a rooster grabs her 'first'.
Quick moving hens are an exciting thing to roosters. That's for any time but is really obvious in the morning and evenings. So maybe some roosters like to put hens in a run for this excitement with the unfortunate thing of the hen being forced down in the end. This is allright if he otherwise is good with the hens, especially with cockerels.
The hatchery cockerel was constantly cornering the pullets, holding on as hard as he could no matter how much the she protested and fought. Like three times at least every hour. He also had the bad habit of passing by a pullet only to suddenly reach out to the side, startling the pullet into a fight/flight with him holding on and trying to get on.. The final clincher was how sometimes the pullets would try to group up and huddle in a corner to get away from him. Yet he would still barge in and randomly grab one... Never saw any of them squat voluntarily for him, both by themselves or when they were grabbed, he always had to fight to get on. Also they tended to run away and try to hide after he was done instead of the normal 'shaking it off'.
all said, Snape sounds largely typical for a cockerel, especially considering hatchery stock- bred strictly for making as many chicks for sales so the breeders are essentially randomly selected with lots of possibilites for what's called genetic drift. There is a good chance he will mellow out on the chasing part next year and seem to be a gentleman rooster.
This helps. The chasing and occasional non-voluntary mounting occurs only in evenings, and not repeatedly like that. In the mornings and during the day he "asks" (dances for them), and accepts their refusal and leaves them alone if they don't squat (some do, some don't depends on whether they're in the middle of something). It almost seems like he has a mental checklist to breed each of the seven girls by the end of the day - once he does, he usually leaves them alone. But the only one who really seems to dislike it is Mystique - she REALLY runs, and after he catches her and has his way, she usually stays down and still for a while. The first time I was worried she had been hurt and checked her for injury - none. She's the number one pullet (including occasionally putting the others in their places), and stand-offish. I know I'm anthropomorphizing this, but it kind of seems like she's mad that she didn't have the option of saying no, like she's embarrassed to have tried to play hard to get and losing... a status thing with him letting her know he was in charge. She certainly is bossy...
I know you guys are jonesing for some toddler pics, right? lol Sorry about the poopy backgrounds in some of the pics.
Beautimous and her buddy (she is the darker headed one)
Both these guys are barred
Me Too and Blondie, this is her first day in clothes she is acting all dramatic! lol Me Too is the one w/ grey colored down at hatch.
The two Fm guys, the one w/ the white goatee also has white butt fuzz and a couple of white wing feathers, you can see a little hint in the pics.
The two redheads
These two had the most contrast in the chipmunk striping at hatch.
This is the first day out of the brooder (they haven't had heat in the day for most of this week) I would have let them out last week but they are delayed b/c of blondie.
And to be fair on my end I have raised meat and egg chickens for 10 years and only noticed the labeling that I speak of the last time I bought feed 2 years ago there was a difference according to my hens because they stoped eating the Dumor so I changed to Purina. Last time I for some reason looked the bags and noticed the same material and stiching and then I looked at the label and called BS on the difference. In the mean time TSC has started selling the newer brand as well as the Omega-3 Purina and now organic, so maybe they changed vendors from what they used to use- I am sure it happens often.
I used to use Purina Flockraiser, now use Dumor (mixed half Layer crumble, half 24% chick starter to "create" a sort of breeder-type ration). Why? Only because at my specific TSC, they sell more Dumor, so it's fresher. Indeed, I got a bag of stale/bad Purina chick starter there once by accident - they refused to eat it and I figured it out (saw the date on the bag) and replaced with a fresh bag. I think fresh is more important than one or the other (they are very similar I believe). I will point out that Dumor makes a 24% starter which is a useful option. I started out using super special non-GMO organic feed from another source (indeed, tried two types like this) - and I couldn't get it fresh enough (and I don't buy enough to get it custom ground). Specially fancy balanced ingredients don't really offer much if they've gone rancid.
@draye this makes me wonder if it was perhaps a stale/bad bag that killed your chicks - I check the dates on the bags compulsively now, and even had a detailed discussion with with TSC manager about what sold fastest and what he saw people using. I went to a DIFFERENT TSC one day to get feed (happened to be in the area that day), and there the Dumor was all old (so I didn't get any).
I'm tired and have had a long day, but it's time to do chicken chores (and stare at the chickens, and maybe watch Snape some). Here are the chicken shoes we discussed. The plastic Birkis on the left are what I've always used in the coops. The red boots were new because the grass had gotten tall - to protect my ankles. This morning I switched to the tall black boots:
That feed could well have been stale, they were eating it though.
I'm getting a feed now though a 22% layer crumble mix. It really works good, but I'm not a big fan of crumbles, too much waste. I just every couple if days make then clean the ground. Believe me they do too.
Golden partridge, 9 pounds at 8 months old. Picture kinda seems to make him look short but he's tall and has excellent breast- meaty and long. He is also a good example of problems with fibro breeding. He had fair gray skin as a chick- same as Kassundra's Blondie. Yet you would be hard pressed to see fibro signs on him.
Jazz wattles!
Freedom/black ranger cross, don't let his super short stature(had to kneel down to take pictures) fool you as he weighs *16* pounds.. about a year old by now. Using him to improve weights in NN.
These boys are fantastic! The shanks on the lower one....I've only seen legs that thick on Cornish varieties. And Mr. "Jazz Wattles" is quite the handsome fella, and he seems to know it.
OK, all done with chicken chores. Snape was well behaved tonight (maybe he knew I was talking about him!) Observed one "sneak attack" right before bed (grabbed a pullet as she was walking by and surprised her). She shook afterwards, but seemed unsteady for a bit when walking afterwards for a minute - I've seen this with a couple others. Could this be because he's so big?
It was actually cute watching them go to bed (I was sitting in the corner of the coop just watching) - although a bit irritating because they still refuse to roost (despite attempting to relocate them for a solid two weeks) and I fear one day something will get them somehow despite my careful build. They sleep in a pile on the coop/run floor. ANYWAY, what's cute is that the girls all burrow under Snape like they would a Mama Hen, and he patiently stands there letting them arrange themselves as best they can under him, and shelters them all night. Indeed, after she shook it off, the girl he surprised before bed walked right back to him and cuddled up under his chest and between his legs.
To change Apoc's water, I have to go inside his tractor (so, sort of close quarters, which is why I'm paying attention to any hint of aggression). No attack, nothing close.
I think it was the boots, at least in part. Apoc may still be destined for culling, because I can't wrap my head around where he fits in, but if he is well behaved from now on, I'll consider waiting (and he may get a shot at having some CL girlfriends to make hybrids). After all, he's big, and was originally kept as a back up in case anything happened to Snape and/or Tank. I don't have to rush to cull him right now. But another attack will put him in the freezer.
(Speaking of aggressive cockerels, I have a 6-7 week old Cream Legbar boy that has now been witnessed twice pulling a pullet's head feathers and attempting to forcefully mount. I'm not out there all the time - who knows how often it's happening. All CLs are being separated from the girls as soon as I can get another tractor built, and will be culled at ~12 weeks. I have another two cockerels from better parentage coming up and will keep their dad as well. The question is where I put the four Aloha NN boys...)
Does anyone who has to cull a solo NN ever dry pluck? How does that go?
Gotta get the final touches done to the brooder, chicks arriving tomorrow morning some time. If I have a burst of energy, I may also make either ice cream or quiche. I have TOO MANY EGGS!!!!! (How many eggs is it safe to give the chickens a week?)
Is it normal for a NN to prefer foraging and Cracked Corn over feed? All of my hens tear the feed up but the rooster sits back and waits until the corn is put in the feeder and then they better get out of the way. He loves him some corn.
Are the hens the same, or is it just that the rooster doesn't need the nutrients in the Layer feed so he doesn't crave the feed? It is good feed- Dumor from TSC. I used to feed Purina Layena until I noticed the tags are remarkable similar, the feed looks/smells the same and the only difference in the labeling is some of the supplements are not listed in the daily allowance type chart yet the mineral supplement ingredients are clearly listed as being added. Also the bag is of the same material and stiching, so I call BS on a difference unless I am told otherwise.
