Nankin Discussion Thread

[griffinkid02]

Better print it out soon. It is a copyright violation to put that up on BYC. That info has an ABA copyright and therefore it is against the law to post on BYC. They will be asked to remove it shortly.

Walt.

Out of curiousity, that post has been up for awhile. Why would you be so positive that they will soon be asked to remove it? Unless you plan to be the one to ask them to remove it? I understand copyright and it's importance, but most of us don't have ready access to that standard otherwise. Especially since the process of APA standardization is still in progress. Why not just let it stand for now? At least until it's not so gosh awful hard to FIND that information. I tried to order a copy of the ABA standard a couple of weeks ago and after 3 hours fighting with their website never got an order placed.

 

[fowlman01]

Out of curiousity, that post has been up for awhile. Why would you be so positive that they will soon be asked to remove it? Unless you plan to be the one to ask them to remove it? I understand copyright and it's importance, but most of us don't have ready access to that standard otherwise. Especially since the process of APA standardization is still in progress. Why not just let it stand for now? At least until it's not so gosh awful hard to FIND that information. I tried to order a copy of the ABA standard a couple of weeks ago and after 3 hours fighting with their website never got an order placed.

I am the Chairman of the APA SOP Committee. We plan on using the same description. While asking them for permission to use it, I happened to mention to my counterpart in the ABA that this has been on the site for a while and he said they will be taking it down. If you really understood copyright you would not be asking me why it can't stay up. Putting it up is against the law. There are several ways to order an ABA Standard. Many of the poultry suppliers have both SOP's if you have a problem with their web site.

I don't want to sound hard nosed, but both the ABA and The APA have a lot of things ripped off that hurt both organizations financially. These descriptions cost each club a lot of money to develop and maintain. If you wrote a book and depended on the money generated by it's sales, would you be OK with me posting it on various websites?

Walt

 

[DaughterOfEve]

Thanks fowlman, rules are rules and we should all support the ABA and APA for their efforts in preserving breeds and getting information out regarding diseases etc. etc. etc.


On another note. I am very depressed this evening. We are on day 24 for my broody girl and not a peep or pip. My DD has been candling along and after much interrogation I decided perhaps I had better shine an LED under that hen. They were dead early on. Probably only made it to day 4 or 5 and then died based on the eggtopsy. I removed my broody from her kennel and she and her used to be girlfriend had it out, sparing like a couple of roos in spring time. Clyde kept trying to get between them with little success. His other mate hid under the coop until it was all over. Broody momma won the battle with little damage done to either. It was all feathers and show it guess.

After a few weeks we will see if any of the girls want to be broody for another stab at it.

Micki, not sure what to make of the bald spot. It could very well have been an early injury maybe. I guess I would be willing to mate him with my best girl and see what I get out of the batch if his conformation is really good like you say.

If you have extra birds to try to rehome, I call the County extension office to let them know and I also make an announcement at my DD's 4H club. Your extension office should be able to give you the phone number of any poultry clubs (4H) in your area. Kids often are looking for showmanship birds that really don't have to be super breed quality.

Later

 

[griffinkid02]

Walt, thank you for informing me that you are actually connected to the organizations, rather just someone dropping by and going holy roller, oddly enough I feel better about a scolding when it comes from someone actually "authorized" to make it, lol. I DO understand copyright. I really do, and I support it whole heartedly. BUT I also have been on several different forums where people where trying to find that same info and not succeeding. Nankin forums as a whole tend to be.... less that hyperactive

and accurate information can be very hard come by. Until that was posted I had never gotten to actually see the standard description and I've been looking for over a year. Longtime breeders also seem to be reluctant to post pictures of their star birds, as that kind of gives away to all the other breeders what the competition at the next show looks like

Perhaps some compromise could be found where there is actual solid information available that could be shared at will, without being a word for word copy/past of the standard. I do realize that a TON of work goes into coming up with those standards. And I wasn't actually meaning that we should have it for free forever. But go back through this thread start to finish and you'll see that MOST posts are people trying find these birds or find information about these birds. I only meant that it kinda sucks to find out that info that can already be hard to come by already, was going to be taken away. I will buy my own copy of that standard at some point before I begin seriously breeding my birds, but in the meantime I need something to go by while I'm raising these babies I have now. (although honestly that standard doesn't help with this issue all that much. it tells me what my goal is, but is a little dry on how to get there besides making the roosters that look the most right have lots of chicken sex with the hens that look the most right

)

And from my end, I didn't mean for my earlier post to read as harsh it probably did. Like I said I have been researching nankins for over a year now. It took me months to find a breeder, more months to get the chicks. (Mary Ann just INSISTS that shipping chicks by mail in December with its freezing and raining is a bad idea

) And I'm still trying to learn about chicken genetics and breeding practices. General chicken info is plentiful, but every hard won nankin specific nugget is like a tooth pulled. I had a knee-jerk reaction to your post and should have waited a bit to make I response instead typing in fluster.

 

[Nankin22]

i agree it is very hard to come by to find information on nankins, i do know about chicken genectics but not much about nankins so seeing that standard really helped

 

[Micki]

I agree with all of the above. While I was thrilled to see the ABA Standard posted, I don't think I ever asked for that specifically. I too understand copyright and understand why it will be pulled. However, I also agree with griffinkid that trying to get anything out of anyone is like pulling teeth. I am surprised that so few people want to talk about details in Nankins, especially to newbies who could really hurt the breed with incorrect info or flat out lack of knowledge. I thought that we were all here wanting to improve and preserve the breed, that we were all pretty much on the same team. I don't feel like it's "My Nankins against your Nankins". I have asked a lot of questions and would like to post pictures of my birds in an attempt to seek information. However, the people with the knowledge really don't seem to want to share it. The only responses seem to be from new people like me, who are looking for the same information. I keep reading about how poultry people are so helpful to newbies and such. I'm really not finding that here as much as I expected to, especially when I try to ask about details and what I should be looking for in my birds as they mature, and what would be traits that if they turn up I should cull for. I know everyone is busy and I give the benefit of the doubt for that. Thank you DaughterofEve for your responses! I like the idea of contacting 4H and letting the birds go to kids. With so few people seriously breeding these rare birds, I expected more of a kinship. What I seem to find is that every Nankin forum or group out there has no activity, or very little. This has been the best one by far but I still feel like I'm pulling teeth to find anything out. Do Nankin breeders feel threatened by other Nankin breeders? Are Nankin breeders so competitive that they don't want to share information or post pictures of their birds? Or has being open in the past caused problems between people?

Walt, you sound like you are super knowledgeable about the breed! What are some traits in the birds that we new breeders should watch out for and try to avoid passing on in our breeding flocks? Any breeding tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Nankin22]

i agree again i am a pretty knew breeder and i want to know as much knowledge as possible. i also follow the habit of giving free birds to 4h kids as i was given nankins by don for free and i want to help people like he helped me

 

[Micki]

@ Nankin22

 

[fowlman01]

I agree with all of the above. While I was thrilled to see the ABA Standard posted, I don't think I ever asked for that specifically. I too understand copyright and understand why it will be pulled. However, I also agree with griffinkid that trying to get anything out of anyone is like pulling teeth. I am surprised that so few people want to talk about details in Nankins, especially to newbies who could really hurt the breed with incorrect info or flat out lack of knowledge. I thought that we were all here wanting to improve and preserve the breed, that we were all pretty much on the same team. I don't feel like it's "My Nankins against your Nankins". I have asked a lot of questions and would like to post pictures of my birds in an attempt to seek information. However, the people with the knowledge really don't seem to want to share it. The only responses seem to be from new people like me, who are looking for the same information. I keep reading about how poultry people are so helpful to newbies and such. I'm really not finding that here as much as I expected to, especially when I try to ask about details and what I should be looking for in my birds as they mature, and what would be traits that if they turn up I should cull for. I know everyone is busy and I give the benefit of the doubt for that. Thank you DaughterofEve for your responses! I like the idea of contacting 4H and letting the birds go to kids. With so few people seriously breeding these rare birds, I expected more of a kinship. What I seem to find is that every Nankin forum or group out there has no activity, or very little. This has been the best one by far but I still feel like I'm pulling teeth to find anything out. Do Nankin breeders feel threatened by other Nankin breeders? Are Nankin breeders so competitive that they don't want to share information or post pictures of their birds? Or has being open in the past caused problems between people?

Walt, you sound like you are super knowledgeable about the breed! What are some traits in the birds that we new breeders should watch out for and try to avoid passing on in our breeding flocks? Any breeding tips would be greatly appreciated!

That is the problem Micki.....I'm not super knowledgeable about Nankins. I have only raised them for a year. I know poultry in general and have looked at a lot of Nankins in various places in the US, but I haven't bred enough of them to be a great help in the breeding dept. I can tell you some general observations, but the real expert in this thread is franciscreek.
He has raised a lot of them and is very knowledgible about their breeding. I don't think anyone here is hiding any secrets.....I just think most are beginners...including me. There are not a lot of experienced breeders at this point. Now that the APA will be accepting them, there should be a lot more interest. I find that almost all poultry people are very good at sharing info.......this is just a breed with few experts. The Nankin breeders I have run across are the least competitive folks I have met in poultry and most are giving good birds away.

BYC is not the best place to seek expert advice in most breeds....particularly breeding advice. Try their club web site.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

i agree again i am a pretty knew breeder and i want to know as much knowledge as possible. i also follow the habit of giving free birds to 4h kids as i was given nankins by don for free and i want to help people like he helped me

Don Cable is a great resource, but he does not come to this site.

Walt