Naughty kids

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My husband describes us as ADD++. Finding activities that help her to focus and encouraging them is exactly the right thing to do. We used karate very effectively until they were teens and went on to other activities. Also making sure the classroom teacher understands the child needs challenging work is a good help too. Bored kids become labeled as ADD kids very quickly.

I am going off on a deep whatever here but I will say this - not one of my kids were ever medicated. The school wanted them medicated even at 6 yo, but I see no reason why any 6 yo needs medication. They are simply six years old. In my experience I have only seen 1, and I repeat only 1, child at 6 that really needed medication. The rest would have done fine with intervention and behavioral modifications. The medication is simply easier to dispense and less work. But the behvior modifications and interventions are more useful for the child long term.

The sad thing is that the medicine works, even if the kid is not really ADD. Make sure your child is checked for higher ability (giftedness) the list of adjectives that describe ADD and giftedness are synonyms. So many kids that are simply bright and question what is being done are mislabeled as ADD so they can be medicated and controlled.

These kids are bright. You need to have definitive discipline. And all behaviors have consequences, both good and bad. My kids knew what they were. When they misbehaved, even at six, I would ask, what are the consequences? They knew the answer and said what it was. It calms them down amazingly. Holding them accountable is important. They know this and need it.

My oldest's form of discipline was writing sentences, even at 6. He would beg me for them when he did something wrong. He would then go and write, and write, and write, sometimes over 100 lines (we would start at 10 and count by fives until he stopped what he was doing). He went crazy if I didn't follow though. And he NEEDED to do the lines. Once they were done he knew he had completed his discipline.

Hope this isn't too much. But havng been there and done that, and I distrust an education system and its insistence that most kids have ADD and need to be medicated etc etc without the proper training of both the parents and teachers. This is not in the best interests of any child, but is easier for the teachers. (BTW I am an educator).

Yes it is HARD raising such a child. Try three. I stayed at home because it was a full time job raising them. I home schooled them at various times because the schools did not understand them. Some days I wanted to pull my hair out and give up.

Stepping down from my soapbox
 
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I have to disagree with this statement (although it really depends on your definition of "bad"). I think there are some kids that come into this world with all sorts of problems that the parents have no control over or the ability to "fix". Even with perfectly "normal" kids, they come into this world with very different personalities and problems. This does not make the parents "bad and misinformed". It just makes them parents of difficult children. You clearly won the kid lottery and lucked out with easy to raise kids. This does not make you the uber parent. It just means you got a good genetic mix and healthy kids. The OP having a difficult child does not make her a "bad and misinformed" parent. It just means her path is going to be harder than your path and she is going to have to work at it more.

In my own family, my older brother came into this world with Asperger like issues. He would melt down at the least little change in his routine. My mother couldn't take him anywhere without screaming, hysterical tantrums. She felt like she was the worst mother in the world. All her other friends had these sweet, compliant children that they could dress up and haul around everywhere. Not her. Clearly she was a bad mother. Then I came along. I was the world's most mellow baby. My mother later confessed that they thought I was mentally slow until I went to school and got tested (I turned out to be quite bright!
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) They could take me anywhere and everywhere with no problems. Did their parenting styles change? Nope. Did they change from being "bad and misinformed" parents to fabulous and great parents? Nope. They just had a kid with a different personality.

Now, while I do think that there are some people that shouldn't be parents, that is certainly not the case with the OP. I think she just got a harder kid. It is pretty arrogant to assume that just because your path was smooth that the person traveling a bumpy road is not doing it right.
 
I don't like to see a thread like this ...but we all have our opinions regarding ADD..ADHD..or other related adolescent issues. There is so many variables and methods used to diagnose these issues. We have had our concerns with ADHD with one of our three children. We had him tested. The teacher as well as my wife and I filled out a question sheet then the DR. looked at the sheet and gave a recomendation based on the answers. The botom line was he was border line. Now having said that, My wife and I have had an on going battle regarding our childrens diet. My wife was raised one way and I another. I was raised by what I call Conservative Hippies.
My parents were strict and we were forced to eat all that health food crap. Very little sugar fresh fruit, Veg and all that. Well we tried it the old fashioned way. My wife agreed to try it my way for 1 month. 3 years later the subject in question is doing well in school and is doing well in Tae Kwan Do. The martial arts are great for kids. It is worth it, the teacher is what makes the class. Do some research on the Dojo before starting, there are classes that cater to children with certain needs. But first you need to know what you are dealing with. We always got two opinions and refused to jump into a quick decision. And were lucky enough to try an alternative aproach before medicating our son. Having said that I have no right to assume that what worked for us will have the same outcome for you. Ultimately as parents you will have to decide on the treatment once you know what you have to deal with. I wish you the best of luck.




Just my.02
 
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My husband describes us as ADD++. Finding activities that help her to focus and encouraging them is exactly the right thing to do. We used karate very effectively until they were teens and went on to other activities. Also making sure the classroom teacher understands the child needs challenging work is a good help too. Bored kids become labeled as ADD kids very quickly.

I am going off on a deep whatever here but I will say this - not one of my kids were ever medicated. The school wanted them medicated even at 6 yo, but I see no reason why any 6 yo needs medication. They are simply six years old. In my experience I have only seen 1, and I repeat only 1, child at 6 that really needed medication. The rest would have done fine with intervention and behavioral modifications. The medication is simply easier to dispense and less work. But the behvior modifications and interventions are more useful for the child long term.

The sad thing is that the medicine works, even if the kid is not really ADD. Make sure your child is checked for higher ability (giftedness) the list of adjectives that describe ADD and giftedness are synonyms. So many kids that are simply bright and question what is being done are mislabeled as ADD so they can be medicated and controlled.

These kids are bright. You need to have definitive discipline. And all behaviors have consequences, both good and bad. My kids knew what they were. When they misbehaved, even at six, I would ask, what are the consequences? They knew the answer and said what it was. It calms them down amazingly. Holding them accountable is important. They know this and need it.

My oldest's form of discipline was writing sentences, even at 6. He would beg me for them when he did something wrong. He would then go and write, and write, and write, sometimes over 100 lines (we would start at 10 and count by fives until he stopped what he was doing). He went crazy if I didn't follow though. And he NEEDED to do the lines. Once they were done he knew he had completed his discipline.

Hope this isn't too much. But havng been there and done that, and I distrust an education system and its insistence that most kids have ADD and need to be medicated etc etc without the proper training of both the parents and teachers. This is not in the best interests of any child, but is easier for the teachers. (BTW I am an educator).

Yes it is HARD raising such a child. Try three. I stayed at home because it was a full time job raising them. I home schooled them at various times because the schools did not understand them. Some days I wanted to pull my hair out and give up.

Stepping down from my soapbox

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As you can see, that type treatment causes MAJOR resentment, even years later. If a child understands that she misbehaved, an appropriate consequence is unpleasant, but not an experience that is remembered years later. If the child is given a severe consequence (in their mind, not necessarily the parents' mind) that they feel is undeserved, it will cause lasting feelings of unfairness, anger and resentment.
 
quote: Even that many is too much at once (unless they are related such as a doll & doll clothes, several sets of Little People that are being played with as if they were a single large set, several storybooks to read, etc.) Before a new toy comes out, the other must be put away; this teaches her self-discipline, and organizes her environment.

I have to respectfully disagree. Many seemingly unrelated toys were used together when my son was that age. It was quite interesting seeing what he put together into one play session.

We often had a train set out, built all across the floor (Thomas), complete with matchbox cars & trucks, many wooden blocks building extra areas, zoo & farm animals, and then godzilla & superhero toys coming to the scene for various activities. I think a Barbie toy or two even visited on occasion. It's been a long time. If he'd been one who played with legos, I can imagine they would have been involved, too, but he never liked Lego.

Now, in this youngster's situation, having this much out may well be overstimulation. She may need less out at a time -- less visual stimulation. That's something that the parents (and counselors) will have to determine. However, as a general rule, let creativity abound. Now, if the toys were just randomly lying about, then I'd agree with you. However, so long as they are being used in some sort of reasonable fashion, there is no need for everything to get put away before something else comes out.
 
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The defination of BAD would be not doing what being told to do, or being asked to do like doing some chores such as cleaning up her bedroom, listen carefully in what needed to be done, staying out of the kitchen, talking back at us or anyone else, bullying kids, etc.

She does not do killings but she does have that curiousity about people in movies being killed which I told hubby to change the channels to something else. Shows like Star Trek, cop shows, etc. Star Wars does not bother her but she does practice the karate moves just like the one kid in class takes karate class...he has been teaching her the moves.
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First, a child is not bad; its behavior is bad. HUGE difference from a child's perspective. They can do something about their behavior; they cannot change who they are.

That said, this is not BAD behavior, it is typical 6 year old behavior. Dealing with it after-the-fact is far less effective than dealing with it immediately, as it occurs. Once a consequence is completed, it is OVER; nothing future for THAT specific misbehavior. If the same misbehavior continues to occur, the consequence needs to be adjusted.

How many tasks do you tell her to do at once? At this age, you need to be very specific and very limited in the number of things you tell her to do at one time. Clean your room is overwhelming. Much better to say "put your blocks in their box and your books on the shelf." And she probably needs supervision. If you tell her it is time to brush her teeth and put on her jammies, you need to intervene right away if she continues to play with her dolls. First, did you give her warning that it was almost time to get ready for bed? And did she actually hear you, or was she so involved in her play that she really did not understand that she was being told to do something?

May I ask why she is not allowed in the kitchen? It seems like an odd thing to consider misbehavior.


How much active play does she get? Practicing karate moves is actually a good thing, but she needs to learn the discipline behind them. Another post mentioned getting her involved in dance. I would say that the discipline required of these or other physical activities is similar, and would be good for her.

Talking back. Do you give her an opportunity to state her perspective? She needs to know that she can talk to you and you will listen to her side. Once you have listened, however, you need to give the consequence and ignore complaints about it. Tell her once that that is the decision you have made, and that you understand that she disagrees, but the decision is made. Simply refuse to acknowledge anything more from her on the subject.

Bullying. Are you aware of the entire set of actions and communication that went on, or just the end result? A lot of times the first part of an exchange is missed by the adults. Make sure you know the whole story before setting consequences. Avoid situations where she has the opportunity to bully another child. If there are certain kids she bullies, don't let her play with those kids. Think about providing more active supervision so that she has no opportunity to bully kids--because you are there and intervening before it starts--removing her from the situation or re-directing the play.
 
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I don't think we are actually disagreeing--the way you describe it, the toys are being played with together, and yes, that can be a great thing. I am thinking of unrelated things abandoned, while attention has shifted to something entirely different: play with the blocks, then abandon them to put together a puzzle or two, then abandon that to play the baby dolls, then abandon them to play with ... creating more and more chaos.
 
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Just the end results......teacher did not elaborate because the kids were inconsisent in their stories how it happened. They didn't even inform me about happening twice, she decked one kid in the face and another in the stomach. I told her teacher that I am glad I am aware of it because I knew of this issues but I am not buying this "kids will be kids" type of thing. I don't tolerate bullies or bullying. There is one kid in her class that is a very aggressive. When we were at the kindergarten class, she was very good but this kid was all over the place, can not sit down or sit still in his seat, doing all kinds of karate moves when the kids were doing their program. DD was very enamorated with this kid. His parents do not believe in medicating him either but boy, talk about disturbing the classmates in quiet times and play times. Even the teacher had a bit of difficulty trying to get him focused. Now the teachers are aware of her aggressiveness, they are keeping an extra vigilance on her at all times in play, lunch time or anything in classes.
 
I wanted to chime in and say that you have your hands full!

I wanted to give my perspective on this, too. I was a problem child and did many of the behaviors your child did and many more. But, when I was her age, I was physically sick all the time and on medication for things like asthma and I think that was part of the reason why I had a hard time controlling my behavior. Most of the time, I didn't feel well or couldn't breathe and nothing else seemed to matter. I know this isn't the case with your child or you would have mentioned that.

Later, as an adult, I discovered that I had a hypoglycemia problem and noticed that my moods would change and fluctuate based on how much carbohydrates I had and what kind they were. Controlling my diet has helped with a lot of emotional things.

Also, personality-wise, I was a kid that did very poorly with too much structure. I know the "experts" were telling my parents to give me more structure, but the more I had the more angry and frustrated I got. I agree with giving boundaries, but not controlling every minute in a child's life. I'm not saying your daughter is like that, but that's the way I felt. Your daughter may have different triggers.

I'm not trying to judge you, I just wanted to give my point of view based on my experiences.

ETA: I do agree, though, that any kind of physical hitting has to stop.
 
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