NECROPSY: Sudden seizure-like death in bird, stood still and puffed up, found asleep in the coop (Warning, graphic!)

[Phantom_k9]

Hello
We just lost a cockerel yesterday to what seemed to be a heart attack. He had been standing still several times for the past few days, and he would get all puffed up. I thought he was just cold...
Yesterday we went out to find him asleep on the ground. We took him in to warm him up, and a few hours later he started puking and died. Now, we are in management mode, trying to catch this before it happens again.

Looking at our oldest Roo (about 15 months old), and he has been acting strange for some time now, more so now. His comb and beard would get either pale or orange (which now could be from the cold, but he was like this when it was hot), and he would get pretty lazy throughout the day. He would lay down often, most times away from the rest of the flock. He would get a lot more sluggish, and would walk almost on his knees at times. He has never been a fan of me, and always keeps his distance from me, however now he almost lets me pick him up, which is very strange...

The bird we just lost yesterday would sorta do the same. He started to let us pick him up. Given the sudden nature of his situation, I want to catch this before it happens again. We are unable to do a necropsy, so we still have no idea what happened and we pray it isn't infectious.

My mother brought up the idea that he could be going blind? He hardly reacts to us around him, and even when I wave my hand a few inches from his face he hardly flinches. I'm pretty desperate here, so any and all help is appreciated!

We did just get finished deworming our flock as well...

I'll attach a few pictures of him. The first is from a while ago when it was still hot outside, the second is from today (its pretty chilly today).

(EDIT!!!): This post got a bit derailed, the initial intent of this post was to discuss the strange health of one of our roos (the one with I have attached pictures of). We also lost another, younger bird yesterday that I did an at home necropsy on. Posted pictures on the 3rd page of this post.
The bird would stand still, puffed up, and would let us even pick him up for the past two days. Yesterday, we found him on the ground, asleep in the coop. After a few hours of trying to warm him up in my jacket, he violently got up, began vomiting, his head went limp, wings flapping, sounding like he was gasping for air. The whole ordeal lasted about 10-20 seconds.

 

[Isaac 0]

I've only done a couple of necropsies here, but here are a few things I noticed.

The "blood clot" on the heart could be the blood in the atria which often swells with blood after death.

Maybe someone will see something, but I was not able to see anything particularly alarming in the photos, however, there are several areas that would have helpful to see in the photos. Such as the underside of the liver, where the gall bladder is to determine bile leakage into the surrounding area, photos of the trachea by itself to assess possible irritation, redness, bumps, etc. Pictures of the syrinx Were you able to open the gizzard, and the intestinal lining?

Nonetheless, you did a wonderful job. Good work.

 

[Phantom_k9]

NECROPSY POST!!!
I finally got the guts up to do this... I might be sending some samples off to a lab if I can't figure this out via email. Made sure everything was clean as well. After this, I almost want to make a savings fund so I never have to worry about this again...

I didn't see anything that really caught my attention, however I really didn't know what to look for. Btw, the bird was semi frozen, so there was a lot of ice to go through...

First thing I checked was the crop. There wasn't a lot out of the normal there, just mushed up feed and some corn.

Next I moved on into the chest cavity, once again nothing important to note...

First find I found interesting was a dark spot in the arteries leading into the heart. My first thought was maybe this was a tumor or clot, later on I came to the conclusion that this was a clot but I have no way of knowing if this was pre or post mortem.

Second real *interesting* find I had was concerning the Clavicular and Cervical air sacs (which I mistook for lungs). They seemed to be almost torn, or fractured. Once again, I have no idea if this happened pre or post mortem.

For simplicities sake, the left *lung* had a fair degree of green discoloration. This was the same color as the gall bladder (which I latter punctured). I'm looking on google to make sure that I get all this right, and looking back his gall bladder looks a lot bigger than what I am looking at (I'll attach a picture of the diagram at the end).

I should also note that I found a substantial amount of blood / liquid in the mesentery film. This could have been a sign of internal bleeding? Once again, no idea if pre or post mortem.

Empty cavity. Also, the porous area was soft and squishy to the touch. I have no idea what area this is, nor do I know if it is supposed to have so many holes.

Extra Pictures I took

The clot from before...

Diagram I was referring too...

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Check with your Ag as suggested, but it would be worth contacting A&M as well. Compare services!
When you talk with them (both places!) ask about fees and services. If too high, then ask if it's possible if you do your own necropsy, can you send them photos and get a consult through email. Some do, some don't. You never know unless you ask - asking is free and it won't hurt.
https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this and things are not going well. If you don't have any success with Ag or A&M, then still take photos and post them. We'll tag in folks to take a look and see if we can help you. A lot of us do our own, but that does not mean that we will know, but it's way for all us to learn and offer input.

I understand it's a difficult decision to make, so take your time thinking about it. Do offer your rooster supportive care while you consider all options. I would give him poultry vitamins a couple of times a week. Something like Poultry Cell that has E, B1, B2 and a variety is what I like best.

Since you hunt, I think you can handle this. Though not quite the same, you are still handling a carcass but just taking a closer look at the organs, intestines, etc.

If interested, here's a good necropsy manual. There's also some good videos on youtube, though quite long.
https://www.uspoultry.org/education.../Lesson11/PoultryAnatomyandPhysiologyPres.pdf

 

[azygous]

You can easily test a chicken for blindness. Each eye sees independently of the other. The right eye sees close up and the left eye sees distant objects.

Test each eye separately. To test close vision, sprinkle his favorite treat in the ground and let him find it. Do this without the other chickens being around. If he makes stabs at vacant space, missing his targets, he's going blind in the right eye.

To test the left eye, place the roo around ten feet from you and hold out the treats. If he sees them and comes running over to snatch them, he's seeing fine in that eye. If he ignores you, he has a problem.

Look at each eye carefully. Marek's ocular tumors affect eye color, causing it to fade to a muddy color, and the pupil will shrink and become irregular. Often only one eye is affected.

 

[Phantom_k9]

Wow! You did great! As professional a home-done necropsy as I've ever seen!

Who are the necropsy specialists here? @casportpony ? @Isaac 0 ?

Thank you. Like I said, this isn't the first animal I've dissected, just the first that I've hatched :/

 

[Trisseh]

Not all of the pics are showing up properly for me, and it’s difficult to see the things I’d like to see in pics versus having them in my hands. Lol. But from what I can see the most abnormal thing is that liver. It’s pale, and appears to have some stippling on it as well. (Again, hard to see from photos.) the clots are normal postmortem findings. The lungs appear normal, the kidney in the one shot looks normal, the gizzard and crop normal. If you opened up the intestines, check for petechia (stippling of red dots) or focal lesions, like patches darker in color. Or areas that look hemorrhagic, like he was bleeding into the tissue (kind of like bruising.)

Necrotic enteritis can cause cholangiohepatitis with involvement of the liver (enlarged, pale, lesions) and the gall bladder. Mycotoxins can also cause liver issues. (Pulled up my vet resources since I’m at work anyways. Haha.) issues with the liver can give you neuro signs too, which may help explain some of the behaviours.

was there any fluid or blood in the pericardial sac? I wouldn’t necessarily be too concerned on the air sacs being torn, I almost always tear at least one when I open up a bird...

Be interesting to see what the lab says. Definitely keep us posted! (And excellent job doing your own PM)

 

[Phantom_k9]

Your best chance of diagnosis for a case that’s kind of nonspecific with the possibility of neurological signs is to send in for necropsy. Usually multiple birds that have been showing the same symptoms is preferred, but not always feasible. I had 2 sebrights that died a few weeks apart, same symptoms but too far apart to send together (although the lab later told me they could have accepted the first bird if I had frozen it - something they originally had told me not to do. ) we had done an in-house necropsy at the clinic I work at on the first one that was inconclusive, nothing obvious. I sent the fresh one off and only had a diagnosis after they did the necropsy and histopathology to look for microscopic changes and lesions. It does add up quickly cost wise here though, so you do have to balance out the cost/return on sending them in. I’m not sure what services are offered at what costs in your area so definitely a good idea to call around and get some estimates and work from there. (FWIW, I’m in NW Ontario and Necropsy and histo here would be $320, although they allow up to 10 birds per case. I declined additional testing because they were pretty confident to make a presumptive diagnosis.)

I am starting the process of getting a necropsy done if it is within a certain price range, and if I could do it and send pictures / small samples for a lower price. Issue is, only one bird has gone and I want to stop any more cases. This guy hasn't been right for a few months. I have made a bunch of threads on here, non were really helpful. Probably will just treat him for generic sickness until I get more conclusive results...

 

[azygous]

Please do continue all further developments on this thread. If you decide to post necropsy photos, it's helpful to edit (or have the mods do it) your thread title to include that necropsy info has been added.

Many people who live on BYC forums don't realize that other search engines pick up these thread titles and steer folks here for information. In addition to our members here, you're helping folks all over the world with your thread.

 

[azygous]

Wow! You did great! As professional a home-done necropsy as I've ever seen!

Who are the necropsy specialists here? @casportpony ? @Isaac 0 ?