Need a No GMO, No Soy, NO PEAS feed. Halp!

[topochico225]

cajun sausages

What a waste!!!!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

What a waste!!!!

"Cajun Sausages"

I make mine with chicken. And Tony Cachere's. Lazy. Haven't done it in a long while. May have to do it again while I cull hard for winter.

Cause we make basically all our sausage with chicken, unless we are making it with duck. The poultry fat doesn't work though, still have to use pork fat when needed to adjust total fat content in the sausage.

Still not making boudin balls. I'm just not that fond of liver.

 

[EmmaDonovan]

Yes @JacinLarkwell , don't feed Becky's Mix. and definitely don't feed Becky's no Soy mix.


Targets for a complete chicken feed, according to NCRS, USDA, Universities like UGA, etc etc etc vary a bit with breed, differences in the research findings, etc, but in broad ranges, they recommend Protein between 16-20%, Fiber 3.5% +/-1%, Fat 3.5% +/-1% (+2% for CX being fattened for table weight, NOT for health), with an amino acide profile for the four most limiting of Methionine 0.6%-0.3% (higher for younger birds), Lysine 1.1%-0.7% (higher for younger birds), Threonine 0.8%-0.6%, Tryptophan .3-0.2%.

Garden Betty's mix calculates out (dry) as 15.8% Protein, 8.1% fiber, 14.1% fat!!! and AA content of 03, 0.6, 0.55, 0.21 (respectively). As fed (accounting for the moisture content), the numbers are even worse.

Her no corn, no soy, mix is 15.08% Protein, 8.72% fiber, 14.85% fat!!!, with AA of 0.3%, 0.57%, 0.53%, 0.21% (respectively). Again, "as fed" is worse.


While there is, of course, variation in sources (and varieties), BOSS is generally given number around 16% protein (not bad) and 48% fat!!!! So when using it in a feed, the first thing you have to do is thin it out with low fat sources to get closer to target. Its AA is pretty decent, .37, .66, .61, .22.

Corn is low protein, around 9.5% (best case, some of the new strains are as low as 7%), 2.5% fiber, 4.3% fat. Its AA is pretty terrible. 0.2, 0.29, 0.34, 0.07% because its protein is so low. So every scoup of corn makes it harder to hit AA targets, doesn't help with fat, and lowers overall protein.

Naked or Dehulled Oats helps make it a more concentrated nutrition source. Call it 13.1, 4.2 fiber, 5.1 fat, AA of 0.24, 0.55, 0.47, 0.16

DE and Grits have no nutritional value whatsoever, and DE's only value in feed is *possibly* assisting in killing grain mites and weevils burrowing through feed that's been kept in storage too long.

Therefore, and feed as described from those ingredients in combination will be protein deficient, massively high in fat, and have an inferior Amino Acid profile, further aggravating health concerns associated with protein deficient diets. The excess fat, of course, is associated with fatty liver disease and a host of other nutritional maladies.

My sources for nutritional values are Feedipedia.Org. There are, of course, other sources, but Feedipedia has the advantage of being one of the most complete - so I can't be accused of cherry picking data from different sources.

This is an excellent analysis, thank you!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This is an excellent analysis, thank you!

Happy to help. I'm a numbers guy.

 

[Solanacae]

Virtually impossible to make a complete feed at home - most go the garden Betty route with no knowledge of poultry food science, and a lot of buzz words from human food trends.

If you plan to start from "scratch", however, I recommend you read up on methionine sources from plants - and why organic feeds are still allowed to add synthetic methionine to their mixes, and also look for Justin Rhodes' make at home.

View attachment 2901245

You should be able to find Organic Corn, Oats, and Wheat. Organic Hard Wheat (often called Durum, or Winter Wheat) is higher protein, and almost universally better to the overall composition.

He uses winter peas for the Lysine and Threonine - you can see in the chart how much better legumes are than grains for those amino acids. You will need to find a substitute.

Finally, the key to his mix is fish meal. I know menhaden fish meal can be found non GMO. You should be able to find porcine blood meal non GMO as well. Uncertain either can be found as organic. But the inclusion of Fish meal in the mix at 1 part in 10 is absolutely critical to reaching desired Methionine levels without the use of synthetics.

Otherwise, you are looking to buy a big bag of organic pre-mix from somewhere, and add it to your own feed, hoiping that your bags of corn, oats, etc have nutritional values near standards. Some of them - corn particularly, have huge ranges based on time of year, variety of corn, location of planting, etc...

/edit One piece of human food advice that may benefit you as you look to make a complete chicken feed? Read up on "protein complimentation", particularly as those practicing vegan diets are now doing in an effort to avoid some of the nutritional difficulties that came of past, less well researched, efforts. Its the scientific truth underlying the ages old culinary practice of pairing beans with rice, beans with pastas. Why nuts and seeds were often tossed on salads or slivered and served with veggies (apart from the textural benefits, of course).

Without soy (a legume) or peas (another legume), you are going to have to look to "field peas", which most call beans, to get some of your AA profile - and they need to be heat treated to address some of their anti-nutritive properties.

This spreadsheet that you’ve got - did you just format it yourself and then put values in from feedipedia?

 

[PeepOverlord]

"Cajun Sausages"

I make mine with chicken. And Tony Cachere's. Lazy. Haven't done it in a long while. May have to do it again while I cull hard for winter.

Cause we make basically all our sausage with chicken, unless we are making it with duck. The poultry fat doesn't work though, still have to use pork fat when needed to adjust total fat content in the sausage.

Still not making boudin balls. I'm just not that fond of liver.

@topochico225 @U_Stormcrow You mean bow-din and Tony ChaCha's?
Even my New England accent upsets these ppl. I have No IDEA what's in the food down here and I've learned not to ask. Apparently it's a huge hit with my feathered dinosaurs tho.

Either of you tried raising Freedom Rangers?? I want to, but I don't want 25 of them. (Min order).

It's looking like ordering from Azure and making my own feed sin;'t going to be much more costly than what I've been paying for useless feed. Dep on what the fertrell ppl say tomo anyway.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This spreadsheet that you’ve got - did you just format it yourself and then put values in from feedipedia?

Mostly. One of the problems with Feedipedia is that it doesn't present its AA numbers in the same format across all feeds, so there's some conversion going on, and in most cases, an adjustment for the actual protein content of the ingredient, since the AA are often listed as a percent of protein present.

Next step is to add in some of the more critical vitamins, where available, and to calculate "as fed", accounting for the higher water content of some of the ingredients.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@topochico225 @U_Stormcrow You mean bow-din and Tony ChaCha's?
Even my New England accent upsets these ppl. I have No IDEA what's in the food down here and I've learned not to ask. Apparently it's a huge hit with my feathered dinosaurs tho.

Either of you tried raising Freedom Rangers?? I want to, but I don't want 25 of them. (Min order).

It's looking like ordering from Azure and making my own feed sin;'t going to be much more costly than what I've been paying for useless feed. Dep on what the fertrell ppl say tomo anyway.

I have a culling project. I may eventually bring in some Ranger stock to add diversity and fresh genetics, but right now I'm culling my way towards a bird well suited for my grounds.

 

[topochico225]

@topochico225 @U_Stormcrow You mean bow-din and Tony ChaCha's?
Even my New England accent upsets these ppl. I have No IDEA what's in the food down here and I've learned not to ask. Apparently it's a huge hit with my feathered dinosaurs tho.

Either of you tried raising Freedom Rangers?? I want to, but I don't want 25 of them. (Min order).

It's looking like ordering from Azure and making my own feed sin;'t going to be much more costly than what I've been paying for useless feed. Dep on what the fertrell ppl say tomo anyway.

No Rangers here, I’m in metro BTR with an already illegal amount of birds, mostly bantams. 3 Mille Fleur d’Uccles, a Red Star, a RIR, and 2 EEs, all girls

 

[Lacy Duckwing]

I think @cluckmecoop7 makes her own grain... Maybe that'd be an idea?