Need advice on soy-free, corn-free feed

[rosemarythyme]

Plus my chickens end up picking through for their favorite seeds and wasting a lot-I really like scratch and peck, but it just hasn’t worked out for me.

For these reasons S&P (and any similar feeds) really should be fermented before feeding.

 

[Lemon-Drop]

For these reasons S&P (and any similar feeds) really should be fermented before feeding.

Oh, ok! That makes sense! I’ve never fermented feed before-maybe I should try it sometime.

 

[Dandelion111]

While I can cite counter research (not that trace amounts of some things aren't eventually present in eggs - but not other things - which I think everyone of intelligence would grant, but rather that soy isn't the problem often assumed), that's not what you are seemingly interested in. So, I'll humor your desires in an honest effort to help.

It is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get a high quality, complete feed for chickiens (organic particularly) without including Soy. Why? Because in the plant world, soy is one of the few sources of nearly complete proteins in the ratio of amino acids needed by animals like chickens, and ourselves. Wheat - particularly hard winter wheat - is a great place to start in building a chicken feed, but no combination of grains and seeds will lead to the levels of methionine and lysine - the two most critical amino acids in chicken development - needed to support optimum chicken growth. Further, those needs are highest (and virtually impossible to hit with purely plant sources) when they are hatchlings, juveniles, and adolescents - the needs reduce as the chickens age and they shift from growth to maintenance.

Needs are so great for Methionine, in fact, that the US allows a (small) amount of synthetic Methionine (appears as DL-Methionine) and synthetic Lysine (L-Lysine) to be added to certified "Organic" chicken feeds. Moreover, they are so great that studies on various poultry diets noted no benefit (but no deficit) in various levels of no-soy feed until they reached 100% organic, and found the allowed levels of even additional methionine addition resulted in a decrease in body weight and bird condition over the course of the study, compared with all other diets.

If, for dietary, religious, or "just because" reasons (all are valid for you, they aren't my birds, I'm not judging because I don't care) you insist on a non-Soy feed, you need to look for the presence of another legume (such as Alfalfa Meal) as well as the addition of DL-Methionine and L-Lysine as individual ingredients, or "Fertrell's Poultry Nutribalancer" which is a common, certified organic, addition used by many mills to convert (largely) local grains into a complete poultry feed. Its basically the only hope you have of reaching a level of methione that meets the minimum optimum recommendations for an adult layer, and likely falls short of any developing bird's wants.

Alternatively, you can do very well by including non-plant sources of protein. Menhaden Fish Meal, Porcine Blood Meal, Shrimp Meal, Crab Meal are all high protein sources of complete amino acids in ratios very close to optimum for animal and fowl. Many of those sources are available non-GMO and/or Organic.

Fertrell, for instance, provides a number of them - often able to be purchased locally (but not at Tractor Supply, Rural King, or the like). Your local Ag Extension office may help you to locate some - I'm unfamiliar with the mills in Central FL. You could also try to make your own, using Justin Rhodes's recipe (requires fish meal), an Amazon Prime account, and heavy purchasing of Anthony's and Palouse Brands (both of which I have used with good success), and a burr mill. Whatever you do, PLEASE don't use "Garden Betty's" [stuff].

Finally, you can search for a supplier of Tucker Milling's feed, out of Guntersville, AL. I haven't had great results compared with alternative feeds (though there were a number of other changes, so the feed can't be solely responsible), but they do have soy-free, non GMO options whose nutritional analysis I find to be acceptable, if less than optimal - and decent pricing. Lake Butler, unfortunately, appears to be their most southern dealer (Westside Feed). Have you checked with Palmer Feed Store and BackyardFeedCo?

I’ve done at least a 100 hrs of study on the effects of canola, corn and soy on ALL animals, including humans, and it is actually highly dangerous and it’s used because it’s cheap filler food, the risks actually out weigh the benefits. Necropsy results do not lie!
I theorize that it’s possibly the cause of many of the illnesses our chickens suffer. Just as humans suffer from poor dietary choices our animals are at the mercy of what we feed them.
Owning farm animals isn’t cheap these days and I’m highly conscious about what I put in my body, so I only feed my chickens what I’m willing to accept into my body eating their eggs.
My hens mainly free range, albeit that’s what most chickens 100 years ago did, there weren’t any big box store chicken feed corporations, people let them graze naturally and albeit they didn’t lay the high amount of eggs that they constantly pump out eating a feed... I know this cause my very first chicken wasn’t fed on feed and she laid about 10 eggs a month, naturally by just free ranging and getting some scratch here and there!
I also like the fact that NCO is a family owned small business, not a huge for profit corporation “brand” name.
I get my feed milled fresh then delivered to my door with a week, cant beat that

 

[Dandelion111]

I’m curious, is there a specific brand or do you mix it yourself?



I’ve found scratch and peck to be pretty good... I love that it’s organic and seems high quality and is local.
Unfortunately for me, it’s too expensive-almost $1 a pound 40 dollars for 40 pounds, maybe even more)
Plus my chickens end up picking through for their favorite seeds and wasting a lot-I really like scratch and peck, but it just hasn’t worked out for me.

I use New Country Organic, they are way less than scratch and peck!
I get it delivered in bulk and pay @ $0.615 per lb.
I get corn and soy free layer pellet/ crumble/mash, depends on the season as summer in zone 8b is hot and humid and pellets/crumble is best!
It is true that mash makes a mess and there is a lot of waste... I start all my babies on there starter mash, then grower mash, then crumble or pellets layer feed!
Hi there their website and look and see if any store near you carries it. Our local true values all carry NCO!

 

[Dandelion111]

Grubby feeds are also corn and soy free. I haven't tried that feed but have look into it in the past. It looks very high quality, and I love that both Grubby and Scratch and peck use paper bags. Thats always a plus in my book.
I can't remember what the price is, but here's the link if you want to check them out. You may have already looked into them though, and maybe its to much of a hassle to get it shipped. Thought I'd link it anyway.
https://grubblyfarms.com

Problem with Grubbly is not their ingredients, those are great, it’s the fact that the grains are not organic, which means they will have a finisher applied before harvest and they cannot be verified to be glysophate free :-(

 

[Secondof9]

I also have health issues with soy so set out to avoid feeding it to my chickens. I used Scratch and Peck whole grain feed at first then made my own for a short time using grains and supplements purchased through Azure Standard. But what I found is that the chickens were picking through the feed eating only what they deemed the choicest bits and not getting a balanced diet. The rest accumulated under the feeder. Egg production dropped off. Then I found that Scratch and Peck produces a layer pellet. Costs more than home made but totally worth it to me for my small flock. I now get 5-7 eggs a day from 7 hens. It looks like those with previous comments have good suggestions. Good luck!

 

[Dandelion111]

Effusive praise aside, it's an overpriced inferior feed from a nutrition standpoint, but if your buyers will pay the premium, it's not for me to tell them how to use their currency.

Inferior to what? Corn? Soy? Canola?
These ingredients are in most of the “name brand” feeds with many other toxic ingredients.
Have you ever studied the necropsy reports on chickens consuming a diet with these 3 ingredients? Not good!
I like that I can pronounce every ingredient in NCO feed!
My clients can’t eat eggs from chickens fed with the “name brand” feeds.
They have allergies to corn/soy.
It’s absolute fact that what your chickens eat will affect the developing egg, same as humans.
I have landrace chickens that don’t need any help with feed, they are fabulous foragers... does that make their diet inferior because they aren’t getting fed food that a corporation deems is nutritionally correct?
They lay beautiful eggs and their yolks are a nice orange color!

 

[Weeg]

Problem with Grubbly is not their ingredients, those are great, it’s the fact that the grains are not organic, which means they will have a finisher applied before harvest and they cannot be verified to be glysophate free :-(

Ahhh, I didn't know that. I wanted to say it was Organic, but must be wrong.
I agree. I've don't a lot of research about "finishing" grains when it comes to grain inclusive/grain free dog food. Its the same thing with chicken feed. I do not tolerate it. I don't want to feed my chickens something that has been sprayed with Round Up, which causes cancer.

Thanks for letting me know! I haven't really throughly check Grubbly, just scrolled through the adds that pop up on my computer. Its pricey too for a non-organic feed.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I use New Country Organic, they are way less than scratch and peck!
I get it delivered in bulk and pay @ $0.615 per lb.
I get corn and soy free layer pellet/ crumble/mash, depends on the season as summer in zone 8b is hot and humid and pellets/crumble is best!
It is true that mash makes a mess and there is a lot of waste... I start all my babies on there starter mash, then grower mash, then crumble or pellets layer feed!
Hi there their website and look and see if any store near you carries it. Our local true values all carry NCO!

Above is your appeal to your own authority, and lots of "unspecified scary" about various ingredients, then here you recommend NCO Starter mash, whose second ingredient, after organic peas, is corn. You are rather non specific about what is supposedly wrong with soy, which leaves us guessing as to the nature of your objections. Many express concern over phytoestrogens in soy - but phytoestrogen levels are also high in alfalfa meal and Flax seed - both ingredients used in that feed. Now maybe you don't object to Flax because its phytoestrogens are largely lignin, not isoflavones as in soy and alfalfa, but nothing about your post suggests such a command of the topic.

NCO's Starter Mash (25# bag) offers a guaranteed nutritional assessment of just 0.3% methionine, a level below the recommendations for hatchling birds of every breed and purpose I am aware of, from dozens of studies in numerous countries, over decades.

It appears they also have a 35# Starter which is corn free, using milo instead (and again, alfalfa, flax), but no guaranteed nutritional analysis on their website. Milo, btw, has less available methionine than corn, and the amount of synthetic methionine (dl-methionine) which can be added is limited by law. So it seems *unlikely* that a nutritional assay of the corn-free product would show significantly higher levels of that most critical amino acid.

You understand, I hope, why I find the rest of your claims of authority less than credible in light if those apparent "oversights".

 

[AgnesGray]

That’s exactly what we use and what I posted to this thread!
When you purchase this brand the cost per lb, if you get a 1/2 tote is $0.615 per lb! I just placed another order last early this week and price went up from $570 to $615 per 1/2 ton. Still worth it and I studied EVER single organic feed on the market and they were all WAY more expensive. Chewy sells Modesto milling but they are more expensive than NCO and I did purchase many bags, as I liked their ingredients, BUT as of last November they switched their main ingredient to Canola! I spoke to the owner directly for about an hour and was disappointed with their choice, as if they couldn’t have picked something else...
Owner did say that this February they were going to change the canola to sunflower seed! I moved on and have been happy with NCO’s price point. I have 28 layers and 19 more pullets! I also have a rooster flock and I sell our eggs to many with egg allergies and they are thrilled to be able to eat eggs!

I'm glad you tagged me as I should update my recommendation here. We no longer use NCO after 2 bad totes. I'll try to find my post about why in another thread and link it.