Here is another link about wry neck that I had forgotten about--it is good for drug dosages: http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/Crookneck/Crookneck.html
Need immediate help to save juvenile roo
- Thread starter Anela
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
Thank you Bogtown Chick for your kind words and your well wishes. I don't consider myself noble though. I'm only doing what I consider decent and right.
My husband and I run a rescue rehab facility for dogs. We take in the neglected, abused, hoarding situation, etc. dogs and rehabilitate them for adoption by rescue organizations - although we take in other animals as well. We took in a pig once named Jack....that was an experience I'm not sure I care to repeat. Only the pig has fun when you're wrestling with him to give him a shot. lol
I find it rather fitting that I wanted a roo so a higher power put one in my path that needed nursed back to health. My husband said the other night that Elvis is with us because he needs us and I believe that. The people who had him would have just left him on his own to live or die. We give every life that comes through our gates a fighting chance. It's who we are - so it's what we do.
I must say though that I couldn't have done what I have for Elvis without the help of the people here in this forum. I was presented with a situation I had never encountered before. Give me a dog cut practically in half by a harness and I know what to do. Give me a rooster with a neuro problem from being pecked in the head and I'm lost - although now I'll know if I ever come across it again. hehe
So thank you everyone.
You'll be happy to know that Elvis stood up on his own several times this evening. I'm hoping that means improvement and it wasn't just a fluke. It has to be awful for him to want to move around and not be able to. I'm sure he can't understand why his body won't do what he wants. He's still refusing to eat or drink on his own, but he scarfs if you put it in his beak for him. He has no sign of the nasal discharge tonight.
I don't think he's taking in enough fluids so one of the rescues we take dogs in from is going to bring me some IV fluids. So if anyone here knows about chicken IVs please let me know. Of course I'll research it but you guys are a wealth of information.
My husband and I run a rescue rehab facility for dogs. We take in the neglected, abused, hoarding situation, etc. dogs and rehabilitate them for adoption by rescue organizations - although we take in other animals as well. We took in a pig once named Jack....that was an experience I'm not sure I care to repeat. Only the pig has fun when you're wrestling with him to give him a shot. lol
I find it rather fitting that I wanted a roo so a higher power put one in my path that needed nursed back to health. My husband said the other night that Elvis is with us because he needs us and I believe that. The people who had him would have just left him on his own to live or die. We give every life that comes through our gates a fighting chance. It's who we are - so it's what we do.
I must say though that I couldn't have done what I have for Elvis without the help of the people here in this forum. I was presented with a situation I had never encountered before. Give me a dog cut practically in half by a harness and I know what to do. Give me a rooster with a neuro problem from being pecked in the head and I'm lost - although now I'll know if I ever come across it again. hehe
So thank you everyone.
You'll be happy to know that Elvis stood up on his own several times this evening. I'm hoping that means improvement and it wasn't just a fluke. It has to be awful for him to want to move around and not be able to. I'm sure he can't understand why his body won't do what he wants. He's still refusing to eat or drink on his own, but he scarfs if you put it in his beak for him. He has no sign of the nasal discharge tonight.
I don't think he's taking in enough fluids so one of the rescues we take dogs in from is going to bring me some IV fluids. So if anyone here knows about chicken IVs please let me know. Of course I'll research it but you guys are a wealth of information.
I haven''t heard of iv fluids done by members here, however, tube feeding is done. Here is a link Kathy has put together about tube feeding and liquids. You can get the supplies at the vet.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/805728/go-team-tube-feeding
I am glad to hear he stood a little bit, this could be a turning point.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/805728/go-team-tube-feeding
I am glad to hear he stood a little bit, this could be a turning point.
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I haven't heard of people on here doing IV's, but giving fluids under the skin is fairly easy in most chickens. It is called hypodermoclysis or clysis for short. I'm pretty sure Castportpony has done it on her chickens. Basically you are taking IV fluid (lactated ringers and injecting it in the space under the skin where it will slowly be absorbed into the body. We used to do it years ago in severely dehydrated children, but now it is mostly done on dogs and cats.
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It is easier to give sub-Q fluids with a butterfly needle. Here are 2 good links to give subcutaneous fluids in birds:
http://www.lafebervet.com/emergency-medicine/birds/how-to-guide-subcutaneous-fluids-in-birds/
http://www.ivis.org/advances/harrison_2/chap15.pdf
http://www.lafebervet.com/emergency-medicine/birds/how-to-guide-subcutaneous-fluids-in-birds/
http://www.ivis.org/advances/harrison_2/chap15.pdf
I'm still trying to master giving SC fluids to birds, it's much easier in cats and dogs because they don't have air sacs that you can get the fluids into, lol.
The following text is a copy and paste from here:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/07_emergency_and_critical_care.pdf
FLUID THERAPY
Oral Administration
Oral administration is the ideal method of giving fluids. This method is more commonly used in mildly dehydrated birds or in conjunction with subcutaneous (SC) or intravenous (IV) therapy. Oral rehydration (30 ml/kg PO q 6-8 h) also may be used in larger birds (eg, waterfowl) that are difficult to restrain for parenteral fluid therapy.
Subcutaneous Administration
Subcutaneous fluid therapy is probably the most common method of administration, although administration in very critical patients must be done judiciously. With experience, warm fluids can be given over the dorsum in very depressed birds without restraint or altering of the bird’s position within its incubator. Studies have shown that adding hyaluronidase e to fluids (150 IU/L fluids) greatly facilitates the absorption of these fluids.
Subcutaneous fluids are most commonly given in the intrascapular area, the flank, and the area over the pectoral muscles or the axilla. Maintaining fluids on a heating pad or in an incubator, so they are available at the correct temperature for emergencies, is important. Warm fluids are both an adjuvant treatment for hypothermia and less painful on administration. However, as in mammals, a severely debilitated or dehydrated bird will not absorb SC fluids.
Intravenous Administration
Intravenous administration of fluids is necessary in cases of severe debilitation or severe hypovolemia. However, when dealing with critical cases in avian medicine, difficult decisions must often be made. For example, some patients may die from the stress of being restrained for injection or catheter placement. On the other hand, IV therapy may be imperative in saving a bird’s life. Careful consideration must be given to the bird’s history and physical condition. Intravenous hetastarch (10-15 ml/kg q 8 h for 1 to 4 treatments) is indicated for hypoproteinemic patients (total solids <2.0 g/dl).
Intravenous Catheter Placement
Intravenous catheterization facilitates fluid administration; however, catheterization can be challenging due to the small size of bird veins. Avian veins also are more subject to rapid hematoma formation than are mammalian veins. This is especially true with the basilic (wing) vein. Catheter placement may be more easily accomplished with the bird anesthetized, although the risk of anesthesia must be considered. Furthermore, catheter maintenance may be difficult, especially if the bird is prone to chew at the site. Elizabethan collars can be placed to prevent this, but often result in further stress to the patient.
Intravenous plastic-coated catheters (IVC) and the related plastic tubing and various rubber adapters— all derived from human pediatric medicine — have made catheter placement in small birds possible. Anesthesia may be required for catheter placement and proper securing of the catheter and line. Once placed, the security of the adhesive materials incorporated into these devices, combined with the severe debilitation of the patients in which these catheters are utilized, makes additional restraint or mechanical barriers usually unnecessary. With the advent of the use of hyaluronidase in subcutaneous fluids the IVC is seldom required. The multidose IV fluid technique also works on most cases in which subcutaneous fluids with hyaluronidase are inadequate. The disadvantage to bolus IV fluids is that they cause hypervolemia with subsequent polyuria; therefore, less fluid is retained than with a constant rate infusion IV drip. This drawback is minimized by the use of a syringe pump that will deliver as little as 1 cc of fluids over periods of up to 1 hour.
Other Fluid Therapy Methods
An alternative to IV catheterization is intraosseous (IO) catheterization of the distal ulna or proximal tibia. This method is very useful during the first 24 to 48 hours of initial hydration and shock therapy. It also is used to maintain hydration and IV access during prolonged procedures, such as complicated orthopedic repairs. In the latter case, the IO catheter can be placed after the patient is anesthetized, avoiding the pain and stress related to its placement. Insertion of IO catheters tends to be painful and often necessitates anesthesia for placement.
This may be too stressful for critically ill birds. An IO needle with a handle a1 (Fig 7.10) is available and makes catheter placement easier and more precise.
Rectal fluids also may be effective. Posturetal urine can be modified in the rectum after retrograde movement from the coprodeum and subsequently be reabsorbed. In an experimental study, four out of six pigeons were rectally infused with a hypotonic solution, which successfully maintained hydration.
23
Edits in Red
The following text is a copy and paste from here:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/07_emergency_and_critical_care.pdf
FLUID THERAPY
Oral Administration
Oral administration is the ideal method of giving fluids. This method is more commonly used in mildly dehydrated birds or in conjunction with subcutaneous (SC) or intravenous (IV) therapy. Oral rehydration (30 ml/kg PO q 6-8 h) also may be used in larger birds (eg, waterfowl) that are difficult to restrain for parenteral fluid therapy.
Subcutaneous Administration
Subcutaneous fluid therapy is probably the most common method of administration, although administration in very critical patients must be done judiciously. With experience, warm fluids can be given over the dorsum in very depressed birds without restraint or altering of the bird’s position within its incubator. Studies have shown that adding hyaluronidase e to fluids (150 IU/L fluids) greatly facilitates the absorption of these fluids.
Subcutaneous fluids are most commonly given in the intrascapular area, the flank, and the area over the pectoral muscles or the axilla. Maintaining fluids on a heating pad or in an incubator, so they are available at the correct temperature for emergencies, is important. Warm fluids are both an adjuvant treatment for hypothermia and less painful on administration. However, as in mammals, a severely debilitated or dehydrated bird will not absorb SC fluids.
Intravenous Administration
Intravenous administration of fluids is necessary in cases of severe debilitation or severe hypovolemia. However, when dealing with critical cases in avian medicine, difficult decisions must often be made. For example, some patients may die from the stress of being restrained for injection or catheter placement. On the other hand, IV therapy may be imperative in saving a bird’s life. Careful consideration must be given to the bird’s history and physical condition. Intravenous hetastarch (10-15 ml/kg q 8 h for 1 to 4 treatments) is indicated for hypoproteinemic patients (total solids <2.0 g/dl).
Intravenous Catheter Placement
Intravenous catheterization facilitates fluid administration; however, catheterization can be challenging due to the small size of bird veins. Avian veins also are more subject to rapid hematoma formation than are mammalian veins. This is especially true with the basilic (wing) vein. Catheter placement may be more easily accomplished with the bird anesthetized, although the risk of anesthesia must be considered. Furthermore, catheter maintenance may be difficult, especially if the bird is prone to chew at the site. Elizabethan collars can be placed to prevent this, but often result in further stress to the patient.
Intravenous plastic-coated catheters (IVC) and the related plastic tubing and various rubber adapters— all derived from human pediatric medicine — have made catheter placement in small birds possible. Anesthesia may be required for catheter placement and proper securing of the catheter and line. Once placed, the security of the adhesive materials incorporated into these devices, combined with the severe debilitation of the patients in which these catheters are utilized, makes additional restraint or mechanical barriers usually unnecessary. With the advent of the use of hyaluronidase in subcutaneous fluids the IVC is seldom required. The multidose IV fluid technique also works on most cases in which subcutaneous fluids with hyaluronidase are inadequate. The disadvantage to bolus IV fluids is that they cause hypervolemia with subsequent polyuria; therefore, less fluid is retained than with a constant rate infusion IV drip. This drawback is minimized by the use of a syringe pump that will deliver as little as 1 cc of fluids over periods of up to 1 hour.
Other Fluid Therapy Methods
An alternative to IV catheterization is intraosseous (IO) catheterization of the distal ulna or proximal tibia. This method is very useful during the first 24 to 48 hours of initial hydration and shock therapy. It also is used to maintain hydration and IV access during prolonged procedures, such as complicated orthopedic repairs. In the latter case, the IO catheter can be placed after the patient is anesthetized, avoiding the pain and stress related to its placement. Insertion of IO catheters tends to be painful and often necessitates anesthesia for placement.
This may be too stressful for critically ill birds. An IO needle with a handle a1 (Fig 7.10) is available and makes catheter placement easier and more precise.
Rectal fluids also may be effective. Posturetal urine can be modified in the rectum after retrograde movement from the coprodeum and subsequently be reabsorbed. In an experimental study, four out of six pigeons were rectally infused with a hypotonic solution, which successfully maintained hydration.
23
Edits in Red
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Air sac diagram.
Sounds like Elvis is making good progress all the time. Tell us...are you doing the Vit E with selenium and anti-inflammatories (aspirin?) or are you just getting him fed and some fluids. I really feel like he is going to recover from this ...just from what I've read on the threads and his progress already.
We had a Polish hen with similar symptoms. She was completely unable to move her body. We thought she would die within an hour. We applied essential oils (Peppermint, Black pepper, Lavender, Ginger, and Thieves diluted with about a ¼ tsp. of olive oil) on her feet every 4 hours. A couple hours after the first application of oils she could move again! After three applications she could walk. Within 2 days she was healthier than she had been before she was sick. I hope Elvis gets better.
- Thread starter
- #50
Wow. That's a lot of good info. Thank you. My husband is the medical procedure guy so I'll have him read all that over. It sounds to me like under the skin will be the most non-invasive and he's not critical so actual venous fluids don't sound proper. I read the info below posted by an ICU Nurse on another thread here:
Now, on the Subcutaneous (SC) fluids. I won't be as in depth here because most people who are likely to try this are probably healthcare people already (nurses and EMS folks are the ones likely to have random IV stuff hanging around the house). My vet told me (this was before we started doing tubefeeds) that if the chicken looked listless and wasn't eating I could give 60 ml of sterile saline into the loose skin under her wing using a syringe and a 22 FR butterfly needle.
Have someone restrain the chicken (or tuck her under your left arm). Have the saline-filled syringe attached to the needle and let it dangle. Seperate the feathers under the wing and look for a spot of loose skin. Insert the needle just enough that it pierces the skin (no deeper). Then depress the syringe to allow the saline to fill the space under the skin. The chicken will absorb the saline into her body. Of course, be careful with this. If you give too much you could over-dilute her blood and (potentially) kill her. So stick to once a day administration.
My husband was going to try that. Since Elvis has been refusing to drink on his own and we're stressing him by using the syringe we thought this would be more beneficial for him since it's only once a day.
So he WAS getting:
scrambled egg mixed with chick starter moistened with buttermilk in the AM and yogurt in the PM
electrolyte solution
orange for Vitamin C
anti-inflammatory/pain reliever
antibiotic
steroid
infant vitamins
Vitamin E oil
NOW he is getting - just starting today
scrambled egg coated in coconut oil
Sav-A-Chick
anti-inflammatory/pain reliever
antibiotic
steroid
I'm figuring the Sav-A-Chick covers some of the other things he was getting before and trying to get less items into him is less stressful for him. The eggs have selenium in them so he can absorb the Vitamin E in the Sav-A-Chick. My husband's question is whether he needs the starter for grit? We fill his crop and when we feed him again it's empty so I'm thinking no but thought I should ask.
His nose is still clear. He's eating and drinking tiny bits on his own today and then we take over when he nods off in his food. I keep telling him it isn't dignified to fall asleep with your face in your food. He's fighting being fed and hydrated a lot more too. Fighting is good. I've also trimmed around his vent so he doesn't get urine/feces burns.
Now, on the Subcutaneous (SC) fluids. I won't be as in depth here because most people who are likely to try this are probably healthcare people already (nurses and EMS folks are the ones likely to have random IV stuff hanging around the house). My vet told me (this was before we started doing tubefeeds) that if the chicken looked listless and wasn't eating I could give 60 ml of sterile saline into the loose skin under her wing using a syringe and a 22 FR butterfly needle.
Have someone restrain the chicken (or tuck her under your left arm). Have the saline-filled syringe attached to the needle and let it dangle. Seperate the feathers under the wing and look for a spot of loose skin. Insert the needle just enough that it pierces the skin (no deeper). Then depress the syringe to allow the saline to fill the space under the skin. The chicken will absorb the saline into her body. Of course, be careful with this. If you give too much you could over-dilute her blood and (potentially) kill her. So stick to once a day administration.
My husband was going to try that. Since Elvis has been refusing to drink on his own and we're stressing him by using the syringe we thought this would be more beneficial for him since it's only once a day.
So he WAS getting:
scrambled egg mixed with chick starter moistened with buttermilk in the AM and yogurt in the PM
electrolyte solution
orange for Vitamin C
anti-inflammatory/pain reliever
antibiotic
steroid
infant vitamins
Vitamin E oil
NOW he is getting - just starting today
scrambled egg coated in coconut oil
Sav-A-Chick
anti-inflammatory/pain reliever
antibiotic
steroid
I'm figuring the Sav-A-Chick covers some of the other things he was getting before and trying to get less items into him is less stressful for him. The eggs have selenium in them so he can absorb the Vitamin E in the Sav-A-Chick. My husband's question is whether he needs the starter for grit? We fill his crop and when we feed him again it's empty so I'm thinking no but thought I should ask.
His nose is still clear. He's eating and drinking tiny bits on his own today and then we take over when he nods off in his food. I keep telling him it isn't dignified to fall asleep with your face in your food. He's fighting being fed and hydrated a lot more too. Fighting is good. I've also trimmed around his vent so he doesn't get urine/feces burns.
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