Neighbor Dogs....again....UPDATE AT END OF THREAD!

[Mama Austranought]

amynbrent
No advice to add just to say go by your gut feeling - it looks like you have good judgements! Good luck!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I do not see any sort of implication that it was illegal to shoot. In fact, I see it as verification that it IS legal. The OP does not give her location, so we cannnot check state laws, but MOST states allow one to shoot dogs that are attacking people or animals; some only require that they be threatening people or animals. As the rules of this forum state, it is up to the OP to determine what methods of controlling predators are legal where they live. Just as state laws vary on shooting predators, they vary on the definition of animal cruelty.

 

[tiffanyg2]

Quote:
I do not see any sort of implication that it was illegal to shoot. In fact, I see it as verification that it IS legal. The OP does not give her location, so we cannnot check state laws, but MOST states allow one to shoot dogs that are attacking people or animals; some only require that they be threatening people or animals. As the rules of this forum state, it is up to the OP to determine what methods of controlling predators are legal where they live. Just as state laws vary on shooting predators, they vary on the definition of animal cruelty.

X2 ~ I'd shoot it if it threatened anything on my property....

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
This is an example of a poster offering you a reasonable solution. One that doesn't punish the dogs for the owner's bad behavior. One that doesn't advocate breaking the law, as it appears many in this thread are suggesting. One that doesn't advocated "lawyering" or walking the line between what is and isn't legal.....

I have not seen anyone advocate breaking the law. Please realize that laws differ from one state to another, and we do not know what state the OP lives in, thus we cannot provide specific advice for her state, but can only rely on our own experience and knowledge. You are ASSUMING that it is illegal to shoot the dog; she has been virtually told by animal control that it is legal to do so.

Yes, she would prefer to not shoot the dog; but she does want the dog kept of her property, which the owners are not willing to ensure. We're not talking about a dog who gets out once in a blue moon, we're talking about a dog that is allowed out on a regular basis. She has tried dealing with these neighbors, who will not take responsibility for their dog. Seems to me that "lawyering" is a pretty good method to resolve the issue legally.

 

[amynbrent]

Quote:
I do not see any sort of implication that it was illegal to shoot. In fact, I see it as verification that it IS legal. The OP does not give her location, so we cannnot check state laws, but MOST states allow one to shoot dogs that are attacking people or animals; some only require that they be threatening people or animals. As the rules of this forum state, it is up to the OP to determine what methods of controlling predators are legal where they live. Just as state laws vary on shooting predators, they vary on the definition of animal cruelty.

I'm in Michigan...I'll have to update my profile to show that.

 

[KlaHaYa Gardens]

Quote:
I do not see any sort of implication that it was illegal to shoot. In fact, I see it as verification that it IS legal. The OP does not give her location, so we cannnot check state laws, but MOST states allow one to shoot dogs that are attacking people or animals; some only require that they be threatening people or animals. As the rules of this forum state, it is up to the OP to determine what methods of controlling predators are legal where they live. Just as state laws vary on shooting predators, they vary on the definition of animal cruelty.

Ignorance kills.


Ignorance gets people hurt; ignorance gets animals hurt. Being "ignorant" is not a defense in court.


1. The OP DID give her location when she introduced herself to the forum.

2. What you, Sonoran Silkies, accept as "verification" is troubling.

3. Sonoran Silkies, even if animal control told the OP to shoot the dog because it is "legal", animal control is not in the business of practicing law interpreting and advising persons in legal issues.

4. OP, I strongly recommend that you take a level-headed approach. I previously suggested being reasonable. I understand that the dog on your property is upsetting, disruptive, and potentially dangerous. I don't think anyone here is suggesting otherwise. However, there are many here that would have you act (shoot) first and consider your actions later -- if at all. The problem with their vigilante advice to you is two fold:
a. They are not a lawyer in your stated who is licensed and knowledgeable about the applicable laws in your state; and,
b. They won't bear the consequences of any bad advice they give you.

5. I already gave you some options to remedy your situation and mitigate potential damages you might suffer; I won't repeat that here.

5. Here is a link to the statutes in your state: (Chapter 287). http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(uozz3a55fvwwkr45kwcu3c55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-Act-339-of-1919

6. This link (to section 19) http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(uo...eg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-287-279 has some points worthy of your consideration.

From MCL 287.279.19

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

I'm going to break this down for you so that you can consider and interpret for yourself how this may apply to you (keep in mind, your definition and the legal definition of some of the language used may not be the same):

Sentence 1. Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing.

Sentence 2. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages.

Sentence 3. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

OP, other posters in this thread may be inclined to read these statutes -- rather, read the first sentence -- and stop there and then say to you "See! You can kill the dog. Kill it!" OP, I caution you to read the entire thing and "test" it, meaning, test to see if it all applies to you.


Now, departing from the eagerness to kill the dog and the eagerness to be justified and satisfied in killing said dog, I ask you, why be so eager to kill the dog IF you have remedies you have not pursued?!

Additionally, OP, you mentioned that you are new to keeping chickens. I imagine in your newness and excitement and affection for your birds, this dog issue gets your feathers ruffled, however, keep in mind that this is an issue that most bird owners have to contend with, plan for, and reasonably deal with on a daily basis. I am not speaking hypothetically, btw, I am speaking from many years of experience.

I am departing this thread. I find the eagerness to be vigilantes and to steer a new chicken owner down the road to be not only bad advice based in ignorance, but very distasteful. I am disappointed that the vigilantes seem to outnumber the rest.

OP, good luck to you. I wish you the best of success and I hope you find an agreeable solution.

 

[EmtheFishLady]

I had a problem with a few dogs attacking my livestock last year. I put up a fence, nope, didn't stop them. I stopped free ranging, eh, that just meant they went through my wire...I warned the neighbor repeatedly, and then called animal control. Animal control informed me and I quote "Once they step onto your property line they are bought and paid for. Shoot them."


I took photographs of them chasing my livestock, took a picture of one of my goats injuries, and then I called my cousin to come do what had to be done.

These dogs were feral, and I tried for months to catch them to no avail. In the end, they were shot. The owners DID call the police, an officer DID come up and speak with me, I DID tell him I shot them for attacking my livestock, and he just said "Well Ma'am, you have a nice day." Now that's here in the mountains of NC, but it wasn't against any laws, it wasn't animal cruelty, and it was the last time I ever lost any animal on my property.


We live in an area where, unfortunately we get dogs and cats dropped off quite often. If I can catch them (and we often do) I rehabilitate them, have them fixed, and adopt them out. In my situation however, it was a set of neighbors who were letting their dogs starve and breed...they hunted in a pack, and they knew there was food here.

I cried the entire day when Zack shot those dogs, but it had to be done.

Try everything you can first, it's not the dogs fault. The dog is just being a dog.


We now have a standard poodle who is EXCELLENT at protecting our livestock and our property. If my daughter or I am outside and Cricket sees a dog that doesn't belong here he goes INSANE. So we don't see any new dogs more than once generally.

 

[thekid]

well the dog is on your property

 

[ralleia]

Quote:

It is unfortunate for the dog, but the owners are irresponsible and have no business keeping a dog they cannot control.

You might be preventing some larger tragedy by getting rid of the dog(s). Just do it quietly and keep your mouth shut about it.

 

[WillieBoy]

I love the poster who wants to drag lawyers into the fray....lol....wonder what that persons profession is...

The dog has shown aggression to the OP's child.Knocking the kid down and nipping at him.That should be the end of this story.Are you going to wait until the dog's nipping, turns to severe and maybe deadly biting..? This has turned into a deadly game of, " lets spin the doggie." will he hurt my child or not, should i shoot and shut up or not...? My neighbor won't listen to me and contain their dog..! I can see it now...Guess what my neighbors dog did to my boy...!? Well, free advise is worth about what you pay for it...Good Luck...!