New Breeds, Genetics and Showing section coming soon

[Yard full o' rocks]

Won't work. The chicken mommies will invade.

I think the best way to keep the "pet owners" away (as opposed to breeders) is to establish the guidelines for conversation, requirement to use Std of Perf terminology and insist the moderators direct "pet owner" posts to the appropriate other thread locations.

I know BYC has been and wants to continue to be friendly to the "causal poultry owner", but a thread of this sort will only be as good as those who can be attracted to participate on a regular basis

 

[sumi]

Won't work. The chicken mommies will invade.

If that happens we are hoping that the participants on those threads will politely point the members in the right direction. The success of this division will largely depend on our members, so please help us make this a success.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

We have spent a lot of time discussing the titles of the new sections and how to word them, so that at a glance people will know what kind of discussions/queries to expect in which section. The Staff will not be babysitting the threads and redirecting "pet owners" to their section though. We have quite enough work to do already

. As I said above, we are hoping the participants will do so and in a polite way.

Most of BYC's members are made up of "casual poultry owners", but we are doing this so that our more serious breeders can have their own space to discuss genetics, the SOP, breeding, etc. Hopefully this move will attract more serious breeders? Time will tell.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT TRYING TO BE CONTRARY....but rather REALISTIC. I believe the fallacy in this concept is that it is believed participants to this thread will have an active knowledge of all the other areas of BYC... I've been a member here a little over 5 yrs and would not know the appropriate areas/threads/etc to direct a person to, nor do I have the time to research it. Therefore, I would foresee "causal inquiries" that do not belong in a thread of this type being ignored....not out of malice, but simply from a lack of knowledge. I can tell you from experience that "exhibition breeders" that we might encourage to participate will have little experience with BYC and will NOT take the time to learn it....

Just food for thought

 

[Wynette]

I think the best way to keep the "pet owners" away (as opposed to breeders) is to establish the guidelines for conversation, requirement to use Std of Perf terminology and insist the moderators direct "pet owner" posts to the appropriate other thread locations.

I know BYC has been and wants to continue to be friendly to the "causal poultry owner", but a thread of this sort will only be as good as those who can be attracted to participate on a regular basis

Scott, it's a good point, and that's been part of our discussion on this topic. We've got a couple of mods that are regular posters in the "heritage fowl sections" and so we get it - and we very much appreciate this feedback. The problem is that there are only so many of us to go around; we're not here to police the threads, and it's not our "job" to redirect - it is EVERYONES job to redirect folks to the appropriate section. We're working on a stickie for the new section that will/should provide insight into what the section is about, and who it is geared toward. That ought to sort of "weed out" some of the folks that really ought to post their questions elsewhere.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT TRYING TO BE CONTRARY....but rather REALISTIC. I believe the fallacy in this concept is that it is believed participants to this thread will have an active knowledge of all the other areas of BYC... I've been a member here a little over 5 yrs and would not know the appropriate areas/threads/etc to direct a person to, nor do I have the time to research it. Therefore, I would foresee "causal inquiries" that do not belong in a thread of this type being ignored....not out of malice, but simply from a lack of knowledge. I can tell you from experience that "exhibition breeders" that we might encourage to participate will have little experience with BYC and will NOT take the time to learn it....

Just food for thought

VERY good point, and I actually did bring this up in our discussions; everything isn't set in stone just yet, and again, we appreciate your feedback. I agree, but it's not my site; wherever it lands, it'll be watched and we may at some point decide to move it to a place that's easier to get to without having to click-click-click through sections to find it. At this point, we're keen on finding out just how much traffic will go through it.

Won't work. The chicken mommies will invade.

Bill.....try to view this is an opportunity; and know that it's okay for members to refer "newbies" to the stickie. You just need to do so in an appropriate way. We won't tolerate flaming or rudeness; just simply let these folks know that this section is more geared to folks discussing Standard of Perfection-type breeding, and let them know where the stickie for the section is (in the stickie, we'll put in the section names and perhaps links to help them out).

 

[Wynette]

Glad to hear BYC is finally waking up. Hopefully it's effective. NYREDS is probably right about it not keeping all the riff raff out but if some sort of standards are actually enforced maybe the newcomers and casual people that come there might actually learn something which would be a big improvement over now.

Seriously, Matt? Were you born with all your poultry knowledge?

You were once a newbie as well...you know I have a huge amount of respect for you, but I'd like to think our longtime members like you who have so much to share will be encouraging to newbies, not call them names.

 

[BGMatt]

Seriously, Matt? Were you born with all your poultry knowledge?

You were once a newbie as well...you know I have a huge amount of respect for you, but I'd like to think our longtime members like you who have so much to share will be encouraging to newbies, not call them names.

Wasn't intended to be insulting, ESPECIALLY to newcomers, so my apologies. I love helping newcomers along their journey into true poultry and sharing the limited amount of knowledge and experience I have. I simply meant there will probably always be those that tolerate and promote hatchery junk, non-standard but well marketed fad breeds and the like.

 

[Wynette]

Wasn't intended to be insulting, ESPECIALLY to newcomers, so my apologies. I love helping newcomers along their journey into true poultry and sharing the limited amount of knowledge and experience I have. I simply meant there will probably always be those that tolerate and promote hatchery junk, non-standard but well marketed fad breeds and the like.

No apology needed; and you're right. And, I DO get where you're coming from.

You know, it's folks like you, Matt, and so many others on here (Scott, Fred, Walt, Bill, Bob...many others) that urged me to seek out quality stock, work toward the Standard of Perfection and continue moving my birds on...I'm a newbie myself, but have been working on absorbing all I can. We all need to work together to turn more folks toward this than away from it. It can be done - I'm (still a work in progress, but) proof!

 

[3riverschick]

Well Wynette,
Well said. I would have given you a couple of Ovations by now but you turned them off, smile. I continue to remember the wise, gentle hand with which Bob Blosl welcomed newcomers to the old HLF thread. He had a way about him. One felt welcomed and approved of but also discerned as to their purpose. It was the kind of welcome which caused one to think. To pause and listen to what was going on in that thread. To take account of the poultry world and listen to another way of doing things. And to feel welcome if one wanted to join the parade. Who knows? The next BG MATT, Yard Full O'Rocks, , Fred's Hens or SonoranSilkies might just be that newcomer who stumbled into the Showing section by accident.
Best,
Karen

 

[Wynette]

I'm going to be very careful not to offend and I am going to reply only one time because at the present time I am beginning to feel a bit unwelcome based upon the posts regarding my comments (and others) concerning this move and I am beginning to question my association with BYC and/or the need to continue my association here.

FIRST, I have always tried to respond with kindness and respect to any post on a thread to which I subscribe. I believe those that know me can attest to that. Whether or not the guidelines for this thread changes or not, the manner in which I, personally, respond to posts will not change. If I might overstep my bounds and speak for Matt and Bill, I would expect that they feel quite the same way.

SECONDLY, if the intent of this thread change is to encourage the participation of breeders/exhibitors WHO ARE NOT CURRENTLY BYC MEMBERS, we, the entire BYC community, myself included, must accept the fact that "in perception lies reality". One doesn't have to look far to see that most serious breeders view BYC as a community of "chicken huggers" and these individuals do not take BYC seriously. Not for the point of excluding anyone, but my point(s) regarding "casual poultry owners" or "pet owners" were not meant to be derogatory in any way, but moreso to identify the fact that there are several groups of people raising chickens....those that do it for enjoyment only and those that breed more seriously. I'll liken this to something I am very familiar with....youth baseball. In youth baseball there are several groups as well....those that play "Little League/Dizzy Dean, etc" simply to learn the sport and for enjoyment and those that play "Travel/Competitive" baseball who's intent is to GROW in their ability...neither is meant to be derogatory not segregational, there are simply 2 groups with differing objectives and the manner in which they engage in the sport is different. My point is that if we don't change for the purpose of encouraging the participation of those you wish to engage, we will make no progress, and the members you have will be the members you continue to have. Exhibition poultry folks are definitely a close knit, cliquish, sometimes snobbish, "good ole boy" group....we can either accept that and adapt as best we can to encourage their participation, or acknowledge the likelihood we will never get them to assist. Remember, "a tiger doesn't change his stripes"

FINALLY, I am quite disturbed to see that comments were allowed to continue, even after Matt publicly apologized for his comments and choice of words; and I quote Matt... "Wasn't intended to be insulting, ESPECIALLY to newcomers, so my apologies. I love helping newcomers along their journey into true poultry and sharing the limited amount of knowledge and experience I have." I believe to continue to berate him after a heartfelt, PUBLIC apology, is distasteful

Perhaps we all could have chosen a better words....but at least from me personally, it was not intended to be derogatory, belittling, or in any way critical of others.

I agree, Scott; further comment wasn't needed to Matt, and my personal apologies to him - @BGMatt - for that. I'm of the persuasion that once something is addressed, you move on. That's how I was raised and it's done me quite well through life.

For you, Scott, I don't know that I have EVER seen you say a negative, mean-spirited thing toward another member. In fact, you are one of the most level-headed and helpful folks in the heritage sections - at least in my opinion.

No, a tiger can't change his stripes. But - human beings can certainly learn a more effective way of communicating. Strip out the nasty stuff and be factual, and it becomes more about learning and less about disdain for the bird being discussed. Know what I mean? For example - rather than, "Holy crap, that's the ugliest "Orpington" I have ever seen, and you have NO business breeding that bird!" Give the owner something that they can learn - maybe "Orpingtons, per the Standard of Perfections, should be large and fluffy...this bird was probably bred for purposes other than exhibition. If you'd like some really nice examples of the breed, you might contact XXX or refer to the Orpington thread." You've said the same thing, just in a more helpful way.

Listen, I know many of us are died-in-the-wool about how we communicate. However, I've worked with a few folks in the past about their posting style...folks with many, many years of poultry experience. Many have been able to figure out a "happy medium" so to speak. So, yep - I know it can be done.

Why not just give it a whirl & see how it turns out? The way I look at it, and what I've been communicating to Rob now for several years, is that folks are out there, they need a place to discuss higher-level poultry issues, and there's no reason that it can't be BYC. The beauty of having it here is the same thing that y'all are frustrated about - the fact that there are so many members here, most of which are backyard keepers. Why do I say "the beauty"? Because just LOOK at all those opportunities to educate, pass along your knowledge & theories, and help someone else move along! Isn't that what this is all about?

 

[Wynette]

I do not believe that the intent of the division of content of the thread, and that is truly all it is, was to make any of these folks take BYC seriously.

This one sentence sums up why we have opened the new section. It's not our goal to "keep people out" - it's our goal to provide two distinct areas for all to coexist. Will this resolve all the issues we have with the two distinct types of poultry folks? Surely not; but, it should greatly reduce them.