New idea on frozen water

[Mrs. K]

So I reading about horses, and a woman posted to take milk jugs and fill them with a strong salt water solution, cap them and put them in the water trough. She said she has two tanks, and placing the milk jugs in one tank kept it open much longer than the one without the jugs.

So of course, I could not find a small plastic bottle, so I used a plastic baggie that sealed. And when I went down this morning, the ice in the dish was a much softer ice, that should have been at -3. However, where the ice formed, it formed to the baggie, and tore as I dumped the ice out.

Anyway, I thought as most of the USA is in a deep freeze, thought maybe some of you would like to try it and report back here. I am going to try again tomorrow. I think I will fill the bottle so as the water level would be above what is in the bowl. I may try a fairly large bottle that would only leave a small rim to drink out of.

Mrs K

 

[CandiceJ]

I tried this last night and it didn't work for me. Water was frozen solid this am.

 

[aart]

Have seen a few folks try this with chicken waterers....doesn't work.
I think it works on a larger scale because the salt water freezes at a much lower temp and keeps floating around to keep ice from forming in the tub.
The movement of the salt water jugs is the key.
Have seen it work with ornamental fish ponds too,
helps keep an open spot in surface ice for gas exchange.

 

[Fairview01]

Volume is also a key factor. With chickens typically we are dealing with 5 gal or less, usually around 3. With large livestock the volume is 10x or more so that is a much larger thermal sink that needs to be cooled.

But in the end the physics just aren't there to support this theory. Water begins to freeze at 32 degrees. Below 32 there is no liquid. Salt is applied to ice to lower the freezing temp to melt it or in this case water to keep it from freezing. So now saltwater within a barrier within fresh water. The fresh water will begin to freeze at 32 and become solid at less than 32. The salt water will remain liquid but at the ambient temperature of the surrounding water. There is no heat released there is no cold absorbed. Fresh water will freeze and the saltwater won't but because there is a greater volume available unlike chicken fountains it takes many more hours below freezing for all that water to freeze top to bottom. Also unlike chickens that can't peck through anything more than skin of ice, a 1500lb+ animal has the brute force to break the ice or push the saltwater container down and access the fresh water.

Take a 50gal bucket, fill it with water and dump a qt of corn oil in it. The oil won't freeze but the livestock will drink from there and break the ice. Chickens on the other hand would use this to create yet a new way to kill themselves.

 

[Mrs. K]

I wondered, I agree, I could not see how the heat was moving.

 

[Sunshine Flock]

This is still very interesting! Lots to think about. Thank you for posting!

 

[chickencheeper]

Volume is also a key factor. With chickens typically we are dealing with 5 gal or less, usually around 3. With large livestock the volume is 10x or more so that is a much larger thermal sink that needs to be cooled.

But in the end the physics just aren't there to support this theory. Water begins to freeze at 32 degrees. Below 32 there is no liquid. Salt is applied to ice to lower the freezing temp to melt it or in this case water to keep it from freezing. So now saltwater within a barrier within fresh water. The fresh water will begin to freeze at 32 and become solid at less than 32. The salt water will remain liquid but at the ambient temperature of the surrounding water. There is no heat released there is no cold absorbed. Fresh water will freeze and the saltwater won't but because there is a greater volume available unlike chicken fountains it takes many more hours below freezing for all that water to freeze top to bottom. Also unlike chickens that can't peck through anything more than skin of ice, a 1500lb+ animal has the brute force to break the ice or push the saltwater container down and access the fresh water.

Take a 50gal bucket, fill it with water and dump a qt of corn oil in it. The oil won't freeze but the livestock will drink from there and break the ice. Chickens on the other hand would use this to create yet a new way to kill themselves.

So the oil method won’t work with a 5 gal chicken water bucket? Or is it deadly to chickens?

 

[Fairview01]

So the oil method won’t work with a 5 gal chicken water bucket? Or is it deadly to chickens?

It would probably work if it didn't freeze solid however my 5 gallon fountain froze top to bottom in one night until I put some heat to then underside. Once ice begins to form it forms quickly.

I was reading a reply post on a different thread and the individual stated that chickens are always finding new and innovative ways to commit suicide. That's what I was referring to. I have a couple that poke their head out at night and because of the light pollution take a stroll to the feeder to get a snack all the while taunting the local owls to have a free chicken buffet.

I can see a flock of chickens all wanting to get a drink at the same time standing on the ice. The last one joins them and the ice collapses underneath them all. Bound to happen to chickens.

 

[tigger19687]

personally tried it, didn't work and that was inside the coop.
Froze at temps around 25 F

 

[ElfEars]

I did this a few times with fails...
I don't have 2 waterers so I've been using the bottom of a planter... cheap I know.. but ya gotta do what ya gotta do... so after my failed attempts I asked myself why isn't this working... the bottle was to heavy... it wasn't floating like salt water should... so I emptied half the salt water in the bottle and put it back in there.... IT HAS TO FLOAT, who knew??!!! Got down to 4° last night... brrrr. Went out this morning... just a skim of ice across the top of the water. I felt so happy for the girls. With minimal effort they were able to peck thru the ice and get some water.
This morning I warmed up there breakfast. They enjoyed that.
I cooked on wood stove top all the freezer burnt meat, our loss, there's gain. Hey, at least it didn't go to waste!!