New Yorker gets in trouble for defending family

My turn to give my opinion. We could "Monday morning quarterback" this situation till we are all dead and buried. Until we walk in this guys shoes we don't know exactly how we would react. I for one agree with what he did because I firmly beleive that a person should have the right to defend themselves from a threat. If these "people" on his front lawn were threatening his family with bodily harm I feel he took the right course of action. BUT he did not follow the law. I may be mistaken but isn't NY a retreat state. By that I mean aren't you required to retreat from a violent situation not defend yourself?
There are two different ways of looking at this situation. One is, did he follow the law of the state he lives in. Acording to the Police he did not. The second is, would I have done the same thing? I do honestly beleive I would have. I don't think I would have fired a warning shot though. In many states a warning shot is the same as a shot aimed at someone. I am a former LEO and Combat Veteran. I strongly believe that we have the right to defend ourselves from violence. We also need to remember that we also have to follow the Law or we could end up the one in handcuffs and not the real person or persons we are trying to protect ourselves and family from.
If I was confronted on my property by a gang of 20 or so hoodlums I would probably reach for a gun also. I am not going to try to debate whether or not he was involved with a rival gang or if he did something to "incite" their anger. He was confronted with a situation that could have cost his family their lives and he did what he thought was an appropriate responce. In my opinion you don't bring a knife to a gun fight, you bring a tank. You cannot win a fight by fighting the other guy fairly. You have to beat the crap out of him so he never wants to mess with you again.
Also, if he does end up in court the Prosecutor has to prove that he had criminal intent. If his lawyer is any good he will show the jury that he was only trying to protect his family. I am a gun owner, I am 100% for being able to defend yourself. I do think though that firing 4 rounds into the ground was stupid. If he did it to attract the police and that was his only way of doing so, then OK. But, he stated that he instructed his wife to call the Police he didn't need to fire a shot unless he was in immediate danger of physical harm. All his wife had to do was tell the dispatcher her hubby was holding the "mob" at bay with a firearm and that would have brought every patrolman in that area ASAP.

Again, just my opinion. Until any of us have been in his position we don't know what we would do
 
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I half agree with you. I agree that you have to know your wepon before you even dream of useing it to protect your family, but the guy did have a reason. The five guys came to his house and said that they would kill him, and his family. That constitutes as a threat in my opinion. The ground was a bad place to shoot though (unless it was at the lawn), what if it ricocheted? I would have told them that the gun was loaded, back off now or I will shoot. Or I would have lost my head at the threats to my family and shot at them.

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Gun safety rule #1, NEVER point a gun at something you don't want to shoot. If you just wanted to warn them, aiming at chest level wouldn't be appropriate.
 
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mom'sfolly :

What's the difference between drunken louts drawing guns and coked up gang bangers drawing guns for "dissing" someone else? Historical perspective?

Do gangland murders not count because they are "two consenting adults". If the man in NY had pulled a gun on a similarily armed man and they had shot each other, does that get excluded from murder statistics?

Gangland murders? That's not two consenting adults - that's drive-bys and assassinations. The Old West duels, even between drunks, were formal - if morbid and morally wrong on every level - affairs, conducted in such a way as to keep noncombatants out of the line of fire. If, however, some marauding gang sacked a town and people were killed defending themselves, that would count as "murder." The Old West duels were not people spontaneously drawing guns and firing. It was thought out ahead of time and agreed on by both parties. If they DID suddenly draw guns and start shooting it out, sure, that's cold-blooded - or hot-headed - murder on the part of one, and self-defense on the part of another, depending on who drew first.

I think that is the point of confusion here. The duels were rather strict, with unwritten rules to guide the combatants. Today it would certainly be considered murder, but in the way it actually plays out it is dramatically different from gangland killings and the like. Again, there is a whole backstory as to the heritage that led to duels over honor.​
 
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I think this is one of those topics that probably shouldn't be discussed here. It really has nothing to do with chickens in general, and a great deal of controversy and hard feelings and opinions. Among other hot topics, I believe this one has run its course and needs to be let go, regardless.
 
"THEN he wouldn't be in this trouble"

Wrong. They come at him with knives and fists, he comes at them with a gun, he's STILL in trouble. THis is New York where equal force is important.

This is exactly what scares me. Making assumptions and not knowing the law.

The fact is, it is a very, very very rare case where someone can shoot at an intruder without facing some very serious consequences.

The previous post I didn't see before posting this. If it is time for this thread to die then give it a hero's burial.
 
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mom'sfolly :

Q9, find yourself some original source material. While this isn't original source material, it is a nice synopsis of some of the more famous "gunfights". Dueling in the old west was little different from coked up gang bangers stirring each other up and then shooting....

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-gunfight.html

Here's original source material for the OK Corral gunfight.

http://azmemory.lib.az.us/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=/ccolch

Congratulations! One link is screwy and the other is an overview of the gunfight that EVERYONE has heard of. Obviously there were some freak instances - I believe I mentioned marauding gangs. Ever heard of Jesse James? (Actually, I'm increasingly thinking that he may have been the good guy) I searched the site that the link lead to, and searched, finding its list of gunfighters. Unfortunately I don't have time to look at everyone on the list, but the few I looked at tended towards - what do you know! - marauding gang members, or just highly skilled pistoleers who got into a couple of fights. When you take into account the fact that they were spread over the ENTIRE West, it suddenly becomes far less impressive. The men were exceptions, not the norm.

In other words, your links prove nothing. I was impressed with the stats you came back with at first, but this is frankly a little dissappointing.​
 
i'm sure that one could find numbers that make the wild west sound very deadly, and other numbers that make it sound like it was not.
 
Try the first link now.

And the second link is not an "overview". It is original source material. Transcripts from the courthouse after the shooting.

As for Jesse James, a man named Joseph Heywood, from Northfield, Minnesota probably would have told you JJ was a bad guy.
 
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The nice, civil, western duel makes for a great movie scene but my understanding of history is that duels like that only happens an hand full of time in all of history an only once in the "wild west"

Anyway... I for one am glad to live in a state where I have the right to place my self where I think any man should be, between my family an danger, where ever that place may be(kitchen, porch or yard) an use what ever force I feel necessary to defend them.

But know your state laws.
 

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