Now River Otter's Genetics 101

[Miami Leghorn]

But perhaps by good genetics you meant parentage? Her father was a show champion, her mother from a

Like begets like.

Genetics ARE controlled by parentage. So unless a dog is a genetic outlier,if both parents had good structure a majority of the litter will express those genetics. Police dogs are not known for meeting 100% of those genetic markers for great conformation. Although I have seen a ton of police dogs that are absolutely stunning and impressive.
Breeders will cull dogs that don't exactly meet what they're looking for. They get sold off to other people (if they don't get spayed or neutered first) who in turn if decide to breed the dog they are breeding a lesser standard of what the original intent was.
If you make a photocopy of a perfect original document... and then you make subsequent copies off of each copy that you make, you will end up with something of less quality in the long run.

In a perfect world,paperwork and genetics go hand in hand. I believe that pedigrees should all be issued with pictures of each dog listed in a pedigree yes it will take more paperwork but you will know exactly what you're getting into.

 

[Miami Leghorn]

Bring a bat,you've got curveballs coming...

 

[Miami Leghorn]

In the words of Maximus Moonshinus Aurelius:

"I came for the chickens..stayed for the drama"

 

[Peaches Lee]

@RiverOtter I'm so sorry that I mentioned your pup! I was just trying to make a light joke...and it's turned into this....

 

[Miami Leghorn]

@RiverOtter I'm so sorry that I mentioned your pup! I was just trying to make a light joke...and it's turned into this....

 

[Peaches Lee]

So, here is the Knabstrupper horse, from Denmark. You'll note that it shares a color pattern with the Appaloosa, from the US.

Now, the question is, where does this gene come from?

It is said that one of the founding Knabstrupper horses was purchased by a butcher from a Spanish officer (during one of the Napoleonic wars).

So, do Spanish horses carry the gene.

I think the leopard pattern is a fascinating coat color.

 

[RiverOtter]

@RiverOtter I'm so sorry that I mentioned your pup! I was just trying to make a light joke...and it's turned into this....

Meh, don't worry about it. I'm not upset by the opinion of folks who can't tell a GSD except by colors they can't name. All the fan-fiction regarding how I got her and from who was entertaining. Personally, I agree with Von Stephanitz that, like a good horse, a good dog is a good color. Light colored Shepherds, livers, blues and grays were nearly wiped out by Nazism. You can see some great pictures of foundation GSDs here, and, for people who care, there are English translations still available, it's a fascinating historical read; https://archive.org/details/derdeutschesc00step/page/132/mode/2up?view=theater

Anyway, Agnes Mule has kept me busy with actual concerns the past couple of days. She got the side door to the garage open, walked in and ate at least 20# of deer corn. Que pouring lots of mineral oil down 16HH+ of confused and increasingly unhappy mule , frantic phone calls and hours upon hours upon hours of waiting and walking. Happily, by the 24 hour mark she hadn't coliced and had passed most of the corn undigested, and I got to sleep for 2 whole hours at a time for the next 36, monitoring for founder. She came through miraculously unscathed, I am still recovering.

View attachment 3257552
So, here is the Knabstrupper horse, from Denmark. You'll note that it shares a color pattern with the Appaloosa, from the US.

Now, the question is, where does this gene come from?

It is said that one of the founding Knabstrupper horses was purchased by a butcher from a Spanish officer (during one of the Napoleonic wars).

So, do Spanish horses carry the gene.

I think the leopard pattern is a fascinating coat color.

It comes from China. Well, there are 25,000 year old cave paintings in France that prove that this is a very old and not uncommon mutation, and around 600 BC there was a very popular breed in the area of what is now Turkey and surrounding countries that had a high percentage of leopard spotted horses, but then they seemed to die out, but Mongolian ponies were still bred for the color and it re-spread across the world from there from about the 6th century (AD) on. Through most of Europe and Central Asia, leopard spotted horses had an interesting rise and fall for centuries. First, they are rare, and royalty picks them up, because rare and flashy things show wealth. Then, everyone wants to imitate the rich, so they spread, first through nobles, then merchants, then common folk get a hold of them - well, that makes them common and decent folk don't bother with what commoners have and the trend goes in reverse. Skip a generation or two and there's this horse that looks just like the horse in your great-grand-uncle's - the Prince of Whatnot - painting that's hung in the great hall since before you were born, no one alive has seen a horse like that and you MUST have it, price is no concern and the cycle begins again.

This went on for centuries, with the horses finally falling largely out of fashion as genetics and inheritance began to be better understood and there was no escaping the fact that LP horses just don't breed true.
The Royal Palominos of Spain could keep chestnut mares, breed them to cremello and palomino stallions, have an endless supply of Royal Gold and the chestnuts of royal bloodline that they gave away as favors would never pop out a king's horse by accident. Not true with the LPs, unless you kill everything off-color, they WILL give you surprises and the horses WILL fall into the hands of commoners and gypsies and the like, So, while they weren't terribly uncommon, nobility didn't focus on them for several hundred years leading up to now, which gives us currently the impression that maybe they weren't around?

But basically, the genetics and the history of breeds ties in very closely with human history and trends and fashions, and, as we've seen in this thread, humans LOVE to form cliques and that influences our animals. Fashion has an incredible influence as well, and is why we often focus so very much on color as a defining factor - 1) it's easy to have a matched set, 2) color is easy to see, judge and criticize, you don't have to know anything to say "Well, that one's not good enough", "Uhg, So-and-So is sooo ignorant, did you see his bull, it has this narrow blaze, everyone knows a real Hereford has a full white face." Now, does the color of a bulls face matter in the slightest? Change the taste of the beef? Is it any indicator of the quality of the animal? Of course not. All caring about it indicates is that you have so many cows that you can afford - literally afford - to choose one bull over another solely to give you a pretty picture when you look out your window.

 

[RiverOtter]

And speaking of spots, genetics and mules, if you REALLY want to drive yourself crazy, study breeding for colors in mules. Did you know it's actually crazy hard to breed a mule with white socks? You have to study genetics to do it. But mules take the LP gene and go NUTS with it.

 

[Painted Calls]

And speaking of spots, genetics and mules, if you REALLY want to drive yourself crazy, study breeding for colors in mules. Did you know it's actually crazy hard to breed a mule with white socks? You have to study genetics to do it. But mules take the LP gene and go NUTS with it.

Positive vibes for your mule.

Ah gorgeous. I love mules!

 

[Painted Calls]

I have never ever looked into mule coat color genetics. I love my draft mules, only so many color possibilities with those.

However.... socks/stockings.. You mention they're hard to get. Thinking back on every mule I've ever seen with them, about 90% were gaited. Out of TWH or SSH mares. Does it have to do with the tobiano gene? It's a common pattern in TWHs and SSHs.

I've never stopped to think about it.