Official LGD Owners Thread!

[cmjust0]

There must me more difference than I thought between your breed and mine, then. Our dog really doesn't have much devotion to anything... He's not bonded to anything.

Does he like the goats? Sure, I guess. Do the goats like him? Meh. Does he miss the goats now that he's laid up with CCL surgery? Not really. Do the goats miss him? Well, critters have been getting in their barn now and scaring them, causing them to stand outside in the cold...so yeah, I'd say they do.

Would he actively 'guard' a goat kid and watch over it? I think he might, but probably in the same sense that a particularly good Pyr belonging to a friend of my dad's actually carries dead goat kids to the gate and noses them under.

Why does the dog do this? Well, I suspect it's for the same instinct that's caused a lot of LGDs to lose their lives on account of being thought to have killed and eaten goat kids...when they really just started eating a dead one and got caught.

What the hell am I talking about?

Threat magnets, in a nutshell. I've seen our LGD turn on our goats in the middle of confronting a threat, just to scare them into the barn where he doesn't have to worry so much about them drawing more fire.

So would he pay extra special close attention to a goat kid? Perhaps...but his intentions would be selfish. I suspect he'd mostly just want to make sure it was healthy and whatnot, so as not to be a predator magnet and endanger HIM by drawing predators.

 

[Beekissed]

Wikipedia states:

Livestock guardian dog
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A livestock guardian dog (LGD) is a domesticated canine used to defend livestock against predators. LGDs are also commonly referred to as sheepdogs since they most often have guarded flocks of sheep, but most are capable of guarding other species of livestock. They can be characterized as part of Pastoral dogs. Unlike a herding dog such as the border collie, an LGD does not control the movement of the flock with aggressive or predatory actions causing bunching. Instead, LGDs tend to blend into the flock and generally ignore the individual animals in favor of keeping an eye out for potential threats. While bunching behavior is observed, it is the livestock that tend to bunch around the guarding dogs, especially on open range when predators are near.

I would say that this description covers a lot of territory when it comes to LGD and allows for a little lattitude. I would expect that it all revolves around the territorial instinct also. If your GP or other known LGD breed is trained to treat the pasture as his territory, then this is what he will guard. If some animals were to leave the pasture or even all the animals were to leave, I'm wondering if the dog would follow the herd and continue to guard the herd or would it stay in its defined territory and just guard? My guess would be that this would depend on the individual dog and not necessarily the breed.

I do understand that certain breeds own more characteristics that would contribute to this instinct of actually guarding the herd, but I've seen individual dogs of many different breeds that seem to want to guard the herd and not necessarily the territory. I would define a LGD on an individual basis and not necessarily per breed.

I personally have owned two different Labs that not only guard territory but also guard and protect individual animals. One of these Labs was also one of the best herding dogs I've seen for working cattle.

Funny enough, these dogs also had a very high prey drive. Exceptions to every rule apply here.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

If some animals were to leave the pasture or even all the animals were to leave, I'm wondering if the dog would follow the herd and continue to guard the herd or would it stay in its defined territory and just guard?

That's what they have been bred to do for thousands of years

My sheep managed to push a barn door open and about 20 of them got out.

2 of the dogs went with the sheep, and another dog was asleep in the barn and didnt get out at all.

They followed the sheep across the road, and then followed them back when we lured them into the pasture.

I move them around to different pastures, so their "territory" changes.
The dogs get upset if I move the sheep first and leave them alone in the pastures​

 

[Mugen]

I think most LDGs are territorial protectors. I know, my Komondors and CMD patrol my perimeter line couple times a day. They will protect the goats and the goats know who to run to when they are scared. However, my dogs don't really care about the goats as they do with us. It is weird.

 

[cmjust0]

See, I have a hard time with the idea that bonding and/or territoriality has so much to do with what makes a good LGD tick as people think.

To me, a good LGD will kill a coyote anywhere, anytime, with or without the presence of anything he's supposed to be guarding. The idea that bonding makes one tick suggests that, in the absence of a herd to guard, the LGD would let a coyote walk right on through. Likewise, the idea of territoriality would suggest that if the herd and LGD moved to another location, the LGD would let coyotes in to do their will until the LGD established the new area as its territory..

I just can't get on board with either of those notions.

That begs the question, both of Mugen and Bear Foot: if your dogs were removed from their charges, set in a totally different environment, and a coyote were introduced to the equation...what would happen?

In my case, with the Sarplaninac, there's no doubt in my mind that he would immediately approach the coyote and try to make it go away. If it wouldn't go away, he would kill it. The reason he would approach it to begin with would have nothing to do with territoriality or guarding a herd...it would be fear aggression. He would see the coyote and get anxious, and his response to anxiety is aggression...pure and simple.

So what do you think would your dogs would do?

 

[Promiselandfarm]

Well I tend to like the Great Pyrenees as they for our family seem to guard our animals and our family warding off the unwanted air and ground predators for whatever the reasons.

and I think they are just cute. We have had two litters this year one is all sold the other have some deposits for and others yet to place but I do love this breed.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

To me, a good LGD will kill a coyote anywhere, anytime, with or without the presence of anything he's supposed to be guarding

That sounds almost like "prey drive" to me

Maybe your breed is more agressive, but I don't think my Maremmas would attack anything they didnt perceive as a threat.
If a dog runs off and leaves the flock to chase down a predator, then he's not there protecting them.

I dont care if they kill or even fight with predators, as long as they dont let them near my animals
It's better for the sheep and for my dogs if their mere presence deters the threats.

I'm sure there are individual personality differences even among dogs of the same breed that might make some more likely to want to fight, but most predators simply go away when they lose the element of surprise.

I've never had a predator get inside the pasture, so I'm really not sure what they would do.
I did have one reach under a gate to"attack" a dead fox that I had just shot, but I had carried it close to the pasture myself

 

[Beekissed]

My dogs perceive any strange predator as a threat and will bark to warn it off or attempt to kill it if it persists into their territory. I've seen them jump into the air after low flying hawks, buzzards or crows. I've seen them guard a baby rabbit that has gotten out of the pen and bark towards the house to alert me to it's presence. But I'm not sure they would do the same if the sheep got out of the fence and headed for the hills, nor would they accompany them out of the farm area.....largely due to the fact that they are on an invisible fence...but mostly due to the fact that their primary concern is us and the territory and not necessarily the livestock.

I guess I would have to refer to my dogs as merely "guardian dogs" without the preferred "livestock" in the title. But I still call them LGDs to keep it simple.

 

[Mugen]

Some LGD breeds do leave the flock to fend off predators. I don't remember which breed does that, but wolfs have learned to trick LGD dogs to chase after them leaving the flock opened to other wolfs.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

I think mostly people are looking for a territorial dog, not one that really will stick with a herd/flock as most people with small herds of sheep don't have enough pasture to move from place to place.