Official LGD Owners Thread!

[Barred Rocks forever]

Gnocchi i love that name

 

[walkswithdog]

Quote:
I found myself suddenly amidst a group of huge white dogs needing a foster home. In desperation I turned to what I love, so I could at least remember their names. PASTAS! We have so far had Mac, Ziti, Penne and Gnocchi

It helps me keep them all straight in my head.

The current crew fall out of that though, Trace, Temper, Donner - he bites, rather hard, Elf, Tanner, Red, Indiana - "we NAMED the DOG, INDIANA," Sydney, and Cleo. Nine... yep that's all of them. Thank God they ship out next week, nine nine week olds is a tad much, even for me.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Yes! And it was amazing to watch him in action....swift and silent, the dog kills with one bite. You can hardly tell the animal has been bitten. It's just a snap of the jaws and a quick shake of the head and it's done. No blood, no drawn out fighting....dead coon, dead groundhog, dead songbirds, dead moles, mice, etc. Love that dog!

 

[Barred Rocks forever]

Quote:
I found myself suddenly amidst a group of huge white dogs needing a foster home. In desperation I turned to what I love, so I could at least remember their names. PASTAS! We have so far had Mac, Ziti, Penne and Gnocchi

It helps me keep them all straight in my head.

The current crew fall out of that though, Trace, Temper, Donner - he bites, rather hard, Elf, Tanner, Red, Indiana - "we NAMED the DOG, INDIANA," Sydney, and Cleo. Nine... yep that's all of them. Thank God they ship out next week, nine nine week olds is a tad much, even for me.

so you have a lgd rescue thats awsome !

 

[cmjust0]

New LGD baby.

Is she not just adorable?!?!?

She's 75% Pyr, 25% Sarplaninac. About 4-1/2 mo's old. So far her temperament's totally different from Ivan's, as she seems to genuinely love the goats. Ivan...like I said, he's just kinda 'meh' around them. He guards himself.

This one, on the other hand...seems she's gonna guard the goats.

FWIW, when we went to pick her up, she immediately showed a little fear agression toward me...head low, eyes averted, tail down, growling and barking....but almost immediately relented and started whimper whining, then laid flat out and went stone still when I walked on into the stall to visit with her.

She's just a cute widdle baby dawg right now, wuv her widdle heart.

Barks like a GSD, though...seriously. It's amazing to hear such a big noise come out of such a small dog.

(Yes, you're seeing right...her left eye's puffy. Got that way after we got her. Dunno.. Have to re-evaluate today, but she may need some antibiotic goop. Would have done that right away, had Terramycin opthalmic ointment not all but fricken disappeared from the face of the planet.

)

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Puffy eyes sounds like a allergy or possibly an insect bit/sting reaction. I hope se gets better

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
Thank You WWD. If you go back on this thread and read my posts we are on the same page as far as what dives LGDs to do their jobs and what doesn't. This is an interesting and fun thread. I appreciate your in put.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Yes, predators piss off LGDs. You and I differ on why they're P/O'd, but the end result is the same....a really P/O'd LGD. I think they react to worry/fear with aggression. You think...well, whatever it is that you think. You never actually gave your reasoning, choosing instead to tell me that it wasn't what I was thinking.

Usually when someone tells you that something isn't what you think it is, they accompany it with another explanation...but that's OK. People can judge for themselves. Your way is much easier, though, I'll give you that..

Now, as for the LGD knowing the difference between a predator and a passing prey animal, explain to me why:

A) One of the Pyrs related to the pup we just picked up gutted a whitetail deer for being in its area, and
B) Why Ivan barked his head off and clawed the ground around a box turtle until my wife physically removed it from the barnyard.

Otherwise, you and I agree on most everything else in the post. Bonding? Some are, but it's not required. That they "must" live outside? Our guy is doing well indoors while he recuperates; nary an accident, and he learned the routines quickly. Such a thing as "most LGDs"?...I really don't think so either. I think different things drive different dogs -- I just happen to believe, through my experience, that fear aggression is a common trait. I also believe that many LGD owners are misinformed, and most LGD failures are actually owner failures.. Makes sense, consider how lots of folks get bad advice like "just throw'em out there and they do their job, no training needed."

Now, as for people choosing to believe this or that based on how it makes them feel...well, I think some people choose to believe that these dogs are fearless because it makes them feel better as owners. Prouder, maybe? Whatever...I consider myself to be more objective than that... I know they're inherently fearful...some won't go further than to call it "wary" because they're opposed to the idea that it's fear, but whatever.... I know because my dog's aggressie displays were classic examples of fear aggression, and I successfully used fear-aggression techniques to get him over being aggressive toward me.

Perhaps that was a fluke?

So, fearless? No.. Courageous? Absolutely. Courage is proceeding in the face of fear, and that's what these dogs do...IN MY OPINION, and IN MY EXPERIENCE.

But, hey, if it makes sense to you that a fear AGGRESSIVE dog would COWER...despite the fact that the two ideas are, on their face, diametrically opposed to the point that even the language doesn't make sense when used in conjunction (An aggressive dog that cowers? Hmm...)...I'll probably never change your mind.

Like I said before, people can make up their own minds.


FWIW...I applaud what you're doing with LGDs, and I don't doubt that your experiences tell you what they've told you.

Keep in mind, though, that I was faced with a dog the likes of which many people have never been around...the kind of dog people turn over to you because they don't know what to do...

Yet, I turned him around to the point that we were best friends in a matter of days without having to enlist the help of the so-called "experts"... Imagine that...me, the person you're calling out, actually did what you do when others can't!

But, hey...who knows...maybe I really am just an idiot on the intarwebs.

 

[cmjust0]

I just thought of something.. I'd like to pose a question to those do disbelieve the notion that there's a fear-aggressive element in LGDs..

Would you folks feel more comfortable calling it "threat aggression" or something like that?

Surely we can all agree that a good livestock guardian dog reacts to a threat with aggression??!? Versus offering to have tea and crumpets with it, I mean...various dogs, various levels of aggression; to chase, or not to chase; to stay with the herd, or to patrol; all that stuff notwithstanding, can we at least say they *should* act aggressively toward a threat?

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
I think what WWD and I are thinking...and she can feel free to tell me to shut up for talking for her...

LOL Fear aggression is not the primary drive that makes an LGD or any dog an effective guardian. Fear based aggressive behavior displays can be an effective deterrant. But its JUST a display. A dog experiencing that kind of stress is in fight (and only IF he has to) and flight instincts. Dogs in a fear aggressive mode will run if they have the choice. They attact if they percieve the theat to be approaching and the dog isn't given the choice to get away.

What makes a dog act on a threat (when given the choice to stand and fight or leave) is the territorial/pack drive or defensive drive. Now to make this more confusing, a portion of concern or fear is usually present when a dog engages or is deciding to act. However in the final moments, if a dog has the choice to leave the area, and the dog decides to fight instead, that IS NOT acting fear aggression.

So if your LGD is in a large field and a wolf comes to attack the flock/herd/group of ________ animals the dog has two choices. It either decides the threat to ITSELF is too great to act and leaves or its insticts/genetics (whatever you want to call the inbred desire to guard) kicks in as a guardian and it threatens-chases-attacks (or some combination of those actions) to make the wolf go away.

Yes an LGD or other type of guarding dog should act aggressively to a threat. Acting is one thing, doing is another. However not all aggressive acts are fear driven.