oil spill rant

[fancbrd4me02]

Quote:
I think you have that very backwards, unfortunately.

I think you need to get your priorities straight. Humans matter vastly more than mere animals. GET OVER IT. The Bible is quite clear that humanity is to rule the Earth. Not abuse, mind you, but tend it and USE it. Darwin says "survival of the fittest." Here's a shocker for you: Humans are the fittest. The oil spill was an accident. Should we stop drilling for oil to save some freaking birds that nobody will miss? Are we supposed to go back to cave life so that the "exploited" animals will be free to... exist without people?

Animals have NO rights. Do I think we should care about the creatures? Yes. After all, stewardship implies, in fact requires, keeping the value around for future generations, which includes natural beauty and wildlife. But priorities, overall, should be on benefits for humans. I hate that the spill happened, I really do. But my pity goes primarily to the men who lost their lives and their families, second to those that lost their jobs, and last to the critters.

I am sorry, but I don't think you realize how the ocean's ecosystem works and how much economic loss the fishermen and our country will suffer because of the deaths of those "less important" sea turtles and fish. If you care about people, you must understand that the loss of wildlife can lead to desert conditions on the reefs and the destruction of fishing and tourist industries. Beyond that, the damage in one part of the ocean is destructive to all of the ocean because they entire system is linked. So, scientifically I have to disagree with you - humans depend on sea life, so they are just as important as we are.

 

[doubled]

Quote:
Actually, coyotes and cockroaches are both far better at survival than humans are. But if you think you are the fittest, let's toss you into the jungle for a few months and see how you do.

or, since we are talking about the great blue, perhaps we should see how fit you are compared to say a great white.

 

[mom'sfolly]

For the skeptics who think only the 11 people who died and their families are affected by the spill and that the fish and birdies will recover...a week ago they were estimating the economic impact of this spill would be about 44 billion dollars. That was some million gallons of oil ago. This will impact commercial and sport fisheries (shrimp, oyster, and others), tourism, shipping and other industries. This is on top of a gulf coast still recovering from Hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Ike. This area is already in trouble. If the oil gets into the Loop Current, your looking at both coasts of Florida contaminated, who knows what the economic impact of that would be.

Anyone who has a clue about coastal areas and estuaries knows that the environmental impact can be long lasting. It affects plants, animals and entire ecosystems. And people actually depend on these ecosystems.

Yes there was a tragic loss of life, but the environmental damage is more than just oiled birds or dead fishies. And they are talking about this spill continuing for months, at 100,00 gallons per day.

 

[claud]

It is a terrible tragedy for all involved.

I do think we need to put humans before animals but humans do have to protect animals as well.

I believe the cause of the explosion was determined to be a giant methane bubble that came up the pipe blowing out all the valves as it rose - this happened in seconds. The crew only had time to try to save their co-workers and overload one lifeboat to get off the rig. The other lifeboats were on fire and many workers were jumping from the rig to get away from the fire. There was a survivor on NPR the other day that gave his account of what happened. Might be able to find it on their website?

The crew had no time to respond to the fire. They were just workers getting a salary like anyone else and doing a risky and tough job. It was not because they were not doing their job and I can't believe anyone would even suggest that.

I do agree there should have been some kind of plan for something like this.

It's just so very sad for the crew, the animals and the people of the gulf coast.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That gas bubble is one of the most dangerous thing about drilling. You might consider handling the gas bubble to be drilling 101. It can happen fast, but there are signs to watch for, equipment to detect it, and procedures to follow.

There was a plan for this. The way the drilling and completion program is designed should help minimize the chance of this happening. You put precautions in place beore you go from one step to the next. You test the cement plug before you remove the heavy drilling mud. You regularly test the blow out preventer and other safety devices. You follow specific procedures to prevent it, to detect it, and to stop it if it does happen. I still think several things had to go wrong, mechanical and equipment failures and human error, probably several diferent human errors, for this to happen. It was not just one thing. Most of the crew were just doing their job and probably doing it well, but somebody somewhere made a mistake, probably more than one person.

The procedures to handle something like this are known. They are doing them. The containment booms, the dispersants, the computer programs to track the spill, drilling a relief well. The water depth makes it tough, both from sheer logistics and the formation of hydrates. The volume of the spill causes other problems. For example, there is only so much dispersant available to use.

There is some discussion that a certain site specific plan was not required here. I'm not sure what site specific plan that is. If it is about how to drill the well and precautions to take while drilling, yes, there is value in that. If BP had an exemption for something like that, then something needs to change big time. I don't think that is what they are talking about, but I could be wrong. If it is a site specific plan on how to handle a blowout like this, they are doing what would have been in the plan anyway. To create that site specific plan, you take a standard document, do a replace for location, lease number, and a very few other things, then submit it. It is even possible somebody would actually read the whole thing before it is submitted. In my opinion, that type of plan is just a tree-killing cookie-cutter formality. It does not add any real value. I'm not sure if this is a red herring or if there is something to this, depends on what type of plan they are actually talking about.

There is a lot of discussion on the animals affected. I don't like far any animal to suffer or die because of this, but that is not my main concern. Animals suffer and die every day. Mother Nature will recover. Whether it is years or decades I don't know, but she will recover. My concern is what that recovery looks like. What species may have gone extinct. And what does this do to the marshes, swamps, and shoreline. Does this oil kill the marsh and swamp vegetation that is holding the coast together and providing the nursery to hatch and rear a huge amount of the animal life in the Gulf. Does it kill the vegetation so the next hurricane or two takes out several miles of the marsh and swamps so this nursery is not there to help the marine life to recover. If the marsh disappears, some towns like Cocodrie and Dulac could disappear. Morgan City and Houma may be as exposed to hurricanes as Grand Isle is now. A whole way of life for a lot of people could change, and not necessarly for the better. I hope the worse that happens out of this is that some porpoises, sea turtles, and brown pelicans die. My concern is that enough die to change things forever.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
That is what I am stating. If the folks on the rig had been doing their job properly, there would have been some kind of plan for this. This is a foreseeable occurrence. They all should have been trained for this. The problem was they were drilling at a depth they KNEW their equipment wasn't meant to handle and they did it anyway, crossing their fingers and hoping against all sense that if anything did go wrong, one of their untested or woefully lacking plans to fix the problem would miraculously work.

I mean, this is like taking a Ford Pinto off-roading and hoping the spare tire in the back will cover all the potential problems that may develop. Sure, it's possible everything will work out just peachy but really now.

Mother Nature will recover. Whether it is years or decades I don't know, but she will recover.

No, she won't. And she hasn't from the last disaster like this either. There are at least 400 species threatened by this disaster, some of which will undoubtedly go extinct as a result of it. Hopes for the brown pelican are low, they were at risk enough as it was and this has destroyed their breeding cycle for this year. They will probably not recover. Due to this disaster, we may also lose the North Atlantic Bluefin Tuna, Loggerhead turtles and four other of the seven types of sea turtle in the area, several types of shark, possibly even the whale shark, who use this area for breeding, most of the oysters off the coast of LA for years to come, LA shrimp and blue crabs, both of which are in their delicate stages of development in the area, and hundreds of other species of fish and bird who have, at the very least, lost an entire generation out of this disaster. With the threats they already face and the near certainty that another such disaster will follow due once again to human greed and carelessness, well, I suppose Louisiana can always pick a new state bird when the brown pelican is gone.

Yes, the oil kills the vegetation. It also remains in the sediment for years continuing to poison creatures like oysters and shrimp and plankton, which are then fed upon by other creatures who are poisoned by eating them. The nursery for these animals is already gone for, at the minimum, a decade. Things are already changed forever.

And that's not even taking into account the damage the actual clean-up efforts are doing to fragile reefs and the migratory pattern of the birds over that area.

And nobody will learn from this disaster either.​

 

[Ridgerunner]

Might I offer these two links for more information. No one is saying anything good about this, but maybe these will help put it more in perspective. I'd really appreciate it if anyone can point me to an assessment of the long term damage caused by the Bay of Campeche disaster. I know there are several things that are different between the two incidents, but it is the closest parallel I can find.

Don't be concerned about the huge volumes of oil that nature puts into the water every year that is shown in the first link. Those natural seeps have been around long enough for Mother Nature to develop means to deal with them and they are spread out over a huge area, not the concentrations that we are seeing in the Gulf.

http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/oilspills.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/us/04enviro.html

 

[claud]

Quote:
That is what I am stating. If the folks on the rig had been doing their job properly, there would have been some kind of plan for this. This is a foreseeable occurrence. They all should have been trained for this. The problem was they were drilling at a depth they KNEW their equipment wasn't meant to handle and they did it anyway, crossing their fingers and hoping against all sense that if anything did go wrong, one of their untested or woefully lacking plans to fix the problem would miraculously work.

I mean, this is like taking a Ford Pinto off-roading and hoping the spare tire in the back will cover all the potential problems that may develop. Sure, it's possible everything will work out just peachy but really now.

Mother Nature will recover. Whether it is years or decades I don't know, but she will recover.

No, she won't. And she hasn't from the last disaster like this either. There are at least 400 species threatened by this disaster, some of which will undoubtedly go extinct as a result of it. Hopes for the brown pelican are low, they were at risk enough as it was and this has destroyed their breeding cycle for this year. They will probably not recover. Due to this disaster, we may also lose the North Atlantic Bluefin Tuna, Loggerhead turtles and four other of the seven types of sea turtle in the area, several types of shark, possibly even the whale shark, who use this area for breeding, most of the oysters off the coast of LA for years to come, LA shrimp and blue crabs, both of which are in their delicate stages of development in the area, and hundreds of other species of fish and bird who have, at the very least, lost an entire generation out of this disaster. With the threats they already face and the near certainty that another such disaster will follow due once again to human greed and carelessness, well, I suppose Louisiana can always pick a new state bird when the brown pelican is gone.

Yes, the oil kills the vegetation. It also remains in the sediment for years continuing to poison creatures like oysters and shrimp and plankton, which are then fed upon by other creatures who are poisoned by eating them. The nursery for these animals is already gone for, at the minimum, a decade. Things are already changed forever.

And that's not even taking into account the damage the actual clean-up efforts are doing to fragile reefs and the migratory pattern of the birds over that area.

And nobody will learn from this disaster either.​

What I am saying is the folks on the rig were just regular workers for the most part. They aren't the ones that drilled or set up plans for disasters. It's kind of like blaming the miners when they are trapped and killed in the mines. You can't really blame the workers for a catastrophic explosion when they were barely able to save themselves.

 

[AHappychick]

the whole situation is darn from every angle. The repercussions will be felt for generations, frankly I think the damage is far greater than anyone is saying and the fallout will practically throw us into the middle ages once we see the chain effect it has. What makes it even worse it is seems as though they never thought this would happen and have no safe guards against it. The whole situation makes me sick. On a personal selfish nature I missed my anual tuna trip last year due to weather I now think that 2008 was the last year I will ever get to fish Tuna again. I wish I had known that then I would have not brought that idiot with me who got sea sick for the 3 days cutting into my fishing time.

 

[Sunny the Hippie Chick]

I feel for the people that lost their loved ones in that tragedy..

But I do think the animals right now should be first. Before they die. If the animals die out.. Fish ect.. Then more people will die in the end. Having no food to eat. Either from the fish and animals being gone as a food source.. Or from no money to buy food because their souce of income is gone. Example: Fishing.. Tourism.. among many other things.

Saving the animals now will in return save more human lives. Which many are saying should be thought of first. When you are basically at the top of the food chain.. All things lower than you are very very important to your survival..