***OKIES in the BYC III ***

[pepper48_98]

One of our does is due April 10, the next is due April 15, and the last should kid around April 20th. Did you need to assist any of the nannys?

No. They all have done fine and another one had her 2 this morning. That just leaves one to go. She should Kid sometime this next week. That makes 8 and we also have an orphan that was given to us so the 9 babies running around is so cute. I just love watching them.

 

[nnbreeder]

looks like captain is not gurgling as much, do i need to isolate him 5 days? also, here is a pic of him, i am wondering if the dark on his comb is normal?? also, you can see his attempt to be a nn...not sure what is going on with that either

The dark purple is usually an indication of not enough oxygen in the blood. This could be due to the resp. infection and should clear up once he gets better. Keep after the Tylan and I would run it for a full 7 days no matter if he looks completely cured.

Could he be molting? check for new feathers coming in on the neck area and if he is, up his protien a tad by giving a few bits of dry cat food daily. A molt is stressful on a bird and that could have brought on the resp. infection.

Teva is a bad Asthmatic and when she has an attack her fingernails turn the same shade of blue.

 

[nnbreeder]

Speaking of Teva she just called and told me that the Atwoods in kingfisher HAD NNs. LOL They are all coming home with her.

 

[Ksane]

A couple of questions.....has anyone here ever dealt with wet pox? (Not dry pox). I've lost several birds to it before I realized what it was and started checking down their throats for those yellow patches. Tylan 50 doesn't touch it once they get the secondary infection in their respiratory tract. Anyone tried Amoxi for it? Gads, it's taking literally months and months to make its way through all the birds. I vaccinated everyone on the place for it 10 days ago but of course that doesn't help the ones that were already incubating it.
Also-I've got 6 LF Fav eggs I wanted to put under my broody LF Cochin girl. Is that a stupid thing to do with Fowl Pox running through here? My Cochin girls have not been affected in any way and like I said, every bird here was vaccinated for it 10 days ago. But there's 4 or 5 who are sick with those patches down their throats. Les? Any ideas?
It'd just be nice to hear from someone else who's dealt with it and how their birds did.
Robin, it's entirely possible that's what Captain has. The raspy breathing (and sometimes snotty nose) is a secondary infection to wet pox, it's passed by mosquitoes. There's a bad smell around their mouths and if you look down their throats or in their mouth you can see what looks like chunks of yellow stuff stuck in there. There's supposedly nothing that can be done once they get it and you just have to wait and hope they make it. But surely there's something?

 

[nnbreeder]

My Idea is actually Canker if the Pox hasn't presented itself on the outside of the birds first. I am going to have to run to town but I will post info on both when I get back.

 

[artsyrobin]

thanks Les, tylan 2 x's day, right? would he still be contagous to the girls? should i keep him seperate? i believe this neck issue started when he was molting, not positive, but i think the girls have been picking the new feathers- he loves the dog food i just gave him

Quote:

 

[nnbreeder]

Here is the info on both types of Pox, both dry and wet.

Treatment of bird - Dry Pox
You need to isolate the bird and put it into an uncrowded area, remove the scabs around the mouth and eyes so the bird can eat and see

Symptoms
Dry Pox, has small yellow warts that appear on the wattles, comb and face
These increase in size as the disease spreads
Dark brown scabs form, and then drop off

Secondary infections
To prevent secondary infections occurring you need to treat with 300 mg oxytetracycline (Terramycin) per gallon of drinking water for 3 days followed by vitamin supplement in the water, do not give the vitamins at the same time as the medication, one will cancel the other out
If the active ingredient is Oxytetracyclene? If it is the withdrawal time of 5 days according to the Merck manuel and seven days according to the Pfiser web site

Recovery
The good news is that the birds naturally recover in 2 to 4 weeks usually, and are somtimes immune to this particular strain of the disease but most remain carriers, and can have reoccurances when under stressful situataions

Reinfection
But some remain carriers and may become reinfected during molt and other times of stress; thoroughly clean the housing the bird has been in to remove all the infective scabs that may have come off

Human and the Pox
Another bit of good news, is that "chicken pox" in humans is caused by a different virus that has nothing to do the chickens, so no human health risk is involved

Now... if its Wet Pox

Treatment of the bird
The bird may have a thick discharge that interferes with its breathing, so clear the airways with cotton swabs coated with iodine, otherwise just treat it the same as dry pox
Swab lesion with Lugol’s solution of iodine

Symptoms
Wet Pox, has yellow cheesy lesions in the mouth and in the windpipe
Vaccination is recommended in areas of large mosquito populations


Treatment
At least now you know what it is, Betadine is a good iodine to use on the sores
Make sure the birds are getting fresh water every day, and fresh clean food every day

With taking the antibiotics, your bird may get diarrhea, give it some yoghurt plain and unsweetened (live culture) will bring the bowel back into a normal function, mix 2 tablespoon with some dry food every day for the next 2 weeks

 

[nnbreeder]

Now for the Canker info. The symptoms are really similar to the wet pox.

Canker

CANKER - ITS PREVENTION, CONTROL AND TREATMENT

Nature of the disease

The disease canker is caused by a protozoan Trichomonas columbae. This is a microscopic single-celled organism. It lives within the digestive tract of pigeons, in particular the throat and crop, and can also involve associated areas such as the bile duct. The organism is fragile in the environment, only surviving for a few minutes once outside the bird. This helps with control of the disease and means that the birds cannot become infected from the loft or immediate environment as happens with other diseases such as worms and paratyphoid. The organism (trichomonad) requires intimate contact between birds to be spread and is usually transmitted by saliva or pigeon milk.

Saliva contaminates food and water. As a pigeon drinks, the organism swims away from its beak and, when another pigeon or bird comes to drink, it not only drinks the water but also the trichomonads there.

When a pigeon sorts through grain, each dropped grain contains a small amount of saliva. In this way, the disease can also be spread through a feed hopper. Adult birds 'billing' can transmit the organism, as do parents when feeding their nestlings.

There is no drug that by itself will cure canker.
It is a matter of using medication correctly so that the birds can establish a strong natural immunity to the disease. It is this natural immunity that, in the longer term, protects them from the disease.

Signs of infection can be subtle and quite varied. Typical signs that would alert the fancier to its possible presence include:

1. 'Penguin' posture - Associated with proventricular (glandular stomach) and crop pain. Birds will lean back on their tails and gulp. Noticed particularly after eating and drinking.

2. 'Dry feather' - Due to lack of down feather drop and bloom production.

3. 'Leady' feel - Affected birds will not come into condition and feel heavy in the hand.

4. Wet dropping - Inflammation in the digestive tract creates a thirst, leading to elevated water intake and urine production. This produces a clear watery rim around the dropping.

5. Green droppings - Due to digestive tract irritation and in some birds decreased food intake.

6. Inflammation in the throat - Tonsillitis and increased clear to grey bubbly mucus.

7. Interference with crop function - Delayed crop emptying and sometimes vomiting.

8. Increased food consumption by team as a whole

9. Dry yellow canker - In birds of any age, this tells you that many other birds have elevated trichomonad levels, which have not yet passed the threshold for yellow material to form.

10. Indirect signs - Poor loft flying, poor tossing, respiratory problems that respond poorly to medication or quickly relapse, a dramatic improvement in the birds' general vigour in response to anticanker medication are all suggestive.

Definitive diagnosis, however, depends on microscopic examination of a crop flush. Microscopic changes that are suggestive of the problem also develop in the dropping,. These changes are associated with the stress of the disease and include elevated E. coli and yeast levels. These changes, however, do not occur in all birds.


Other sites of canker

As fanciers would be aware, most canker lesions are found in the bird's throat and are often associated with their tonsils here. However, canker can affect a variety of other sites.

Sour crop

In pigeons with sour crop, at least 90% have an internal canker nodule located at the base of the crop or within the glandular stomach (proventriculus). As the nodule increases in size, it squashes the windpipe making breathing difficult and blocking the crop outlet. This interferes with crop emptying, leading to bacterial infection of the crop and secondary starvation and dehydration due to the crop contents not being able to pass into the bird's system. Usually by the time the bird is noticed to be unwell, the condition has passed the point where it will respond to treatment. Deaths often occur due to the nodule growing through the stomach wall, leading to stomach contents leaking into the chest. Alternatively, the nodule can damage the heart or large blood vessels within the chest, causing sudden and severe bleeding. Such birds are often found dead on the floor with blood coming from the mouth. It is always worth attempting to treat valuable birds and I suggest :
• Manually empty the crop
• Give electrolytes in water
• Treat bird with 3 drops Baytril twice daily
• Treat bird with 1 tablet of Spartrix or a 1/4 Flagyl tablet or 0.5 ml Flagyl syrup once daily
• Separate unwell bird from loft mates

Cloacal canker

The cloaca is the pigeon's bottom. Within its wall is a gland called the Bursa of Fabricius. This gland is an important part of the youngster's immune system. It shrivels up and disappears during puberty. If pigeon milk containing trichomonads contaminates the nest bowl, the trichomonads can cause a trichomonad nodule to develop in the cloaca. Affected birds are usually noticed to be a bit quiet or their growth is slightly retarded compared to others of their age. On examination of the cloaca, a firm lump can be felt in the skin above it. Sometimes these lumps do not become apparent until the postweaning period. Affected birds should be treated daily with either Spartrix or Flagyl, usually for 3 - 4 days, by which time the nodule has usually localized and can be expressed by gentle but firm pressure through the cloaca.

Canker nodule in throat or crop

Older youngsters or mature stock birds with a reasonably strong natural immunity will often try and localize a canker infection, leading to nodule formation. If in the throat, these nodules can usually be seen or if in the crop wall can usually be felt as firm mobile lumps ranging in size from 0.5 cm to 4 cm in diameter. Affected birds are treated daily with Spartrix or Flagyl tablets. Once localized (usually 1 - 4 days), throat lesions can usually be teased free with a cotton bud or crop lesions pinched free into the crop. Occasionally, surgical removal is necessary. Premature attempts at removal usually result in excessive bleeding.

Internal canker

Canker can infect internal sites associated with the digestive tract, notably the bile duct, which drains bile from the liver into the bowel. Birds with internal canker nodules usually display non-specific signs of illness, including weight loss, lethargy, reluctance to eat and green diarrhoea. The final diagnosis is often made at autopsy. In lofts with a canker problem, it is usually best to include a daily Spartrix or Flagyl tablet in the treatment regime of an unwell bird in case this is the problem.

Sinus canker

Sometimes canker organisms can invade the sinuses through the slot in the roof of the mouth and form a canker nodule here. The birds present with a firm swelling across the forehead between the base of the cere and the eyes. Anticanker medication is given for 4 - 5 days to kill the active infection. After this, lancing the area by making an incision in the skin over the most prominent area of the nodule enables the canker nodule to be expressed. Once the nodule is removed, it is best to continue with anticanker medication for several days. Healing is usually uneventful.

Other sites

It is important not to confuse infection in other parts of the body with canker. Trichomonads, partially because of their fragility, can only infect the digestive tract and associated structures. Pigeons are very restricted in their response to infection. Their white blood cells lack many of the enzymes (called lysosomes) that are normally found in mammals and therefore cannot produce pus. For this reason, no matter where the site of infection, the resultant reaction often looks like a canker infection. Bacterial (or other) infections of the skin, feet and eye, etc. for this reason are often confused with canker because of their appearance.

Medications Available

Any one of a group of medications called nitro imidazoles are effective against trichomonads. There are four commonly in use:

1. Dimetradazole - The common brand name here is Emtryl, available as a water-soluble powder. Dimetradazole was the first nitro imidazole available and is still an effective drug, although trichomonad resistance to it in some areas is a problem because it has been used for the longest. It must be used with care as it has a narrow safety margin. Overdose leads to a reversible loss of balance and coordination and, in high doses, death. The medication can interfere with sperm production in cocks, leading to a temporary infertility, and so is not recommended for use during breeding. The usual dose is 1 teaspoon (3 grams) to 4½ - 8 litres of water. Lower dose rates should be used in stock birds feeding youngsters and during hot weather when water intake increases and evaporation occurs from drinkers, increasing the concentration of the medication.

2. Carnadazole - The common brand name here is Spartrix. It is only available in tablet form. It has a wide safety margin and is very useful for individual bird dosing, particularly youngsters in the nest. The dose is one 10-mg tablet daily.

3. Metronidazole - The common brand name is Flagyl. This is available as a water-soluble syrup and as tablets in a variety of strengths. It is very economical, with the tablets being useful to dose individual birds. Individual birds are given ¼ of a 200-mg Flagyl tablet once daily. Flagyl syrup is water soluble and is given at the dose of 5 - 10 ml per litre but is very sugary and not very palatable to the birds.

4. Ronidazole - This is available as a water-soluble powder under a number of brand names world-wide, including Ridsol-S, Turbosole, Tricho-Plus and Ronivet. The usual strength used is 10%. The dose at this strength is ½ teaspoon per litre. Weaker preparations are available but the birds need to be treated longer with these. The drug is very bitter so preparations stronger than 10% tend to be unpalatable to the birds. It has a very wide safety margin and is safe to use during breeding, racing and moulting. World-wide, ronidazole is the current medication of choice to treat canker. However, in some countries it is not available for use in pigeons, authorities being concerned that resistant organisms may develop. As the drug is used in food-producing animals such as pigs, its use is reserved for these.

In any canker-control program, it is often best to rotate between at least two of these medications in order to decrease the chance of a resistant trichomonad strain developing. Currently, ronidazole-based preparations are used as the primary treatment because of their effectiveness and wide safety margin, but it is a good idea to swap to one of the other available drugs every third or fourth treatment.
Reference: Dr. Colin Walker

 

[nnbreeder]

A common treatment for Canker is Copper Sulfate. Here is how to mix it. Plus any Pigeon supply house has meds for Canker since it is prevalent in Pigeons. Foy's pigeon supply is a good source for meds. Yes poultry can get canker but most of the info found will be for pigeons.


Copper Sulfate Medication How to Make up

Used for treatment of: Canker, Roup, Trichomoniasis, Mold infection of the crop (Mycosis), Thrush, Candidiasis, Moniliasis, Sour crop

If you have a bird that is suffering form what you think is a crop impaction, then more than likely she also will have one of the above problems, the crop impaction symptoms could have been caused by a small canker in the crop this then causes a chain reaction of food rolling into a ball in the crop and the impaction occurs

In some cases what seems like crop impaction is the canker on the outlet to the gizzard stopping anything from passing through… You end up with a mushy crop

Use the solution as a "follow-up" treatment after flushing with Epsom salt solution

Epsom Salt Solution

0.45 kg (1 lb) Epsom Salt per 7 kg (15 lb) feed

-or-

0.45 kg (1 lb) Epsom Salt per 23 litre’s (5 gallons) water for 1 day

Give the Epson salt feed mixture as the sole feed source for a one-day period.

This feed can be used only if the birds are eating.

If the birds are not eating, use the water solution.

If the birds are unable to eat or drink by themselves, use individual treatment with:

1 teaspoon of Epsom Salt in 30 ml of water (1 fl oz water)

See Crop Tube and Insertion below - on how to administer this solution…

Do not just pour it down the bird’s throat

Copper Sulfate Medication

Use 1 gm (0.035 oz) of Copper Sulfate (bluestone) to 2 litres (3.52 pints) of water – be very careful about the measurements of the Copper Sulfate too much will kill your bird

Add 2 teaspoons of Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix in some Cranberry Juice to make it more palatable for the birds to drink and disguise the taste of the copper sulfate and vinegar

Give this medicated water as the sole source of drinking water for 4 to 7 days, in some cases you may need to extend this time until you feel that the disease outbreak is over

Do not use metal containers only plastic ones

Put the mixture out fresh each day

If you choose not to use the Copper Sulfate you can use

1. Nystatin at 220 ppm in the feed.
2. Carnidazole (Spartrix) pills for 5 days
3. Metronidazole (Flagyl) injections or pills for 5 to 7 days

This is just some extra information to help you better understand why you are doing what your doing

ASTRINGENT SOLUTION

This solution can be used to treat young birds that show non-typical disease symptoms of poor growth.

The solution can also be given to birds suffering from respiratory diseases that produce a large amount of mucus exudate.

This solution will help "cut through" the mucus and allow it to be expelled easier.
Two quarts of apple cider vinegar diluted into 100 gallons of water
(4 teaspoons/gallon)

The tannin in the apple cider vinegar aide in removing any mucus or coating from the mouth, throat, or intestinal tract.

Nutrients and drugs are more readily absorbed. Offer this solution as the only drinking water source for two to three day intervals.


Poisoning in Poultry: Inorganic Sources

Copper: Copper sulfate in a single dose of >1 g is fatal. The signs are watery diarrhea and listlessness.

A catarrhal gastroenteritis and burns or erosions in the lining of the gizzard, accompanied by a greenish, seromucous exudate throughout the intestinal tract, are found at necropsy.

When you mix the 1 g of Copper Sulfate with water it is diluted and not fatal, only if you try and give the CS on its own is it fatal.

 

[nnbreeder]

thanks Les, tylan 2 x's day, right? would he still be contagous to the girls? should i keep him seperate? i believe this neck issue started when he was molting, not positive, but i think the girls have been picking the new feathers- he loves the dog food i just gave him

Yes twice daily, hit it hard and hit it long. If the girls are not showing symptoms chances are they won't. It's the nature of the hens to be in better condition then the roosters are, especially a good rooster, since they are always fussing over their girls and tempting them with the best tid-bits. To be on the safe side however I would keep them seperated for awhile longer.

Many roos will stand there and let the hens pluck hackle feathers for some reason. I've seen it a lot through the years.