Quote:
Not a clue on that one. I'd probably try it to see what happened.
Not a clue on that one. I'd probably try it to see what happened.
Okies in the BYC The Original
- Thread starter Buckguy20
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- Jan 26, 2008
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Well I went and picked up peeps this morning.... Sorry Teach, but they were all DOA but 2, and one doesn't look too hot. I gave it some water in a dropper, but it's pretty wiped out. The other one looks pretty good... but how long will it make it by itself? Jeez... they are supposed to reship next week. They said they shipped them yesterday, but the postmark was the 5th....so I was right... they were supposed to be here yesterday....something got screwed up somewhere....
It's still foggy and dreary... could really use some sun.....
On a happier note...the GINORMOUS hen is in there on eggs and really grouchy!! Tuffoldhen sent me a note that she was going to ship my eggs out the 11th. was thinking of finishing these reds off in the bator and letting the yellow hen do the blues... any ideas?
It's still foggy and dreary... could really use some sun.....
On a happier note...the GINORMOUS hen is in there on eggs and really grouchy!! Tuffoldhen sent me a note that she was going to ship my eggs out the 11th. was thinking of finishing these reds off in the bator and letting the yellow hen do the blues... any ideas?
Well im suppose to pick up a 1202 tommarow that has no egg trays or hatching tray. The lady quite emailing me back after wondering if i could meet her in town. I was at work and didnt get off until the time she would be in town. Im going to call her this afternoon and hope and pray I can get that 1202 tommarow. Im sure ill be able to figure out someway to use it to hatch in until i get all the goodies for it.
- Jan 26, 2008
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In california our pastors teenage son sleep walked alot.... they had to put a bell on his door. He went into the pastor's study at the house one night, opened the closet and a filing cabinet and peed on all the pastor's sermon notes he had saved. I think a psychiatrist would have a picnic with that one.....
- Thread starter
- #8,636
I found this recently and found it interesting. It is long but for those of us who wonder........
Hi All, Since we are on the subject of Blue breeding let's break it down into various categories of Blue and how they are inherited.
#1 Self Blue: A nonlaced Blue that breeds true when bred Blue to Blue. This color is also known as dove blue,White Blue, and Lavender.
Let's assume that you wish to transfer this color to another breed.
A cross of a Lavender bird to a solid Black will produce all Black in the F1 generation.
In the F2 generation when breeding the offspring of this mating intersee the ratio of offspring should be 3 Black to 1 Self Blue. In reality it takes 2 self Blue genes to produce a Self Blue bird. Genetically if 2 parents carry only 1 gene each for the Self color their offspring will be 1 pure Black that carries no Self Blue genes. There will be 2 offspring that carry the same single gene for the Self Blue color as the parents but a single gene bird cannot express the color so they appear Black. Then there should be 1 bird that is a Self Blue.
So what you get are a ratio of 3 Blacks to 1 Self Blue. You can read where Self Blue X Self Blue begits 100% Blue. This is mostly true but on a rare ocassion you can get an ocassional pure Black chick out of Self Blue parents. This doesn't mean that the stock isn't pure, it just follows the first rule of genetics which states that "Nothing is absolute."
The Self Blue gene turns Red to a Beige color and Black to a dove gray. Self Blue has no effect on Silver so if a Self Bird if bred to a Barred, Mottled, or other silver patterned bird the pattern won't be affected by the cross. Only the Black will be changed to Blue and the silver pattern remains. For a good visual of what I am trying to convey find a good picture of a Porcelain bird and study the colors. Blue replaces Black, fades Red to Beige, and Silver mottling not affected.
People have been playing with this gene for quite some time and as a result it has contaminated other Black breeds. At present I have a strain of some of the finest Black Naked Neck Bantams to be found. However the person whom I purchased my original Black NN Bantam male from had introduced Lavender into his lines and as a result I now have a few Lavender colored NNs in every hatch. Things of this nature come about by irresponsible breeding and by not telling the next person who gets your stock that they are carriers of the Lavender gene.
#2 Blue Dun: This is a Bluish color that looks a lot like Andalusian Blue and is often partly laced. It is the oldest expression of Blue since it comes directly from pit games into our modern breeds. The color is usually nonlaced and is often accompanied by a fawn or brassy tinge over the hackles shoulders and saddles of the males. Hens are very similar to the Andalusian Blue color and normally don't show any tinge of the fawn color.
This color is closely associated with Dominant White and is the color that created the latest new fad color varieties in the show rooms. This color is called Fawn [or Dirty White]in it's raw form and more refined it is called Khaki and Chocolate.
When breeding Blue Dun to itself you will get near the same ratio of colors as you get with Andalusian Blue. These colors are Black, Blue and Splash. If you know what you are looking at then you can't mistake it for true laced Blue. Many of the offspring from these matings will also carry a dark brownish tinted beak and toe nails as well as show some brown or tan over cast to their shanks.
The main difference in this color and breeding the Splash to Splash offspring of laced Blue is that when Dun Splashes are bred together you often get Snow White as well as what some refer to as "Dirty White." This Dirty White or Fawn is where you get Chocolate.
I have also produced clear nonlaced Blue offspring from a straight White X White mating out of Dun derived parents. Needless to say this is an interesting color to work with as well as suprising at the mutations and natural variations that come from such matings.
You are probably wondering why I would bring this up on a dark egg breed board and here is why. The Marans I have seen often show two types of Blue and the Marans were a derivative of pitfowl mixed with other breeds. The Dun gene is in this stock if you know how to bring it to the surface. That sure beats the dickens out of breeding a Chocolate bantam of some type to your large fowl and messing up their size for the next 20 generations or so. Also there is one benefit to breeding a chocolate to a Black Marans and that would be that some of the segregants possess some of the whitest shanks I have ever seen on any type of chicken. Any foreign color in the shanks of your Blacks will be washed out in a single cross. There is something else I wish to pass along and that is that SOME of your Blacks out of Chocolates will have a Fawn tinge to their shanks and this should and can be avoided by using only the Whitest shanked offspring in the breeding pens.
Chocolate also acts a lot like Laced Blue in the fact that Black X Black begits only Black. [We must discount the Carefoot Chocolate Orpingtons at this time b/c they are derived from a different gene where they originated from Black X Black orpington breeding]. Dun breeding ratios below:
Breeding Duns
Chocolate X Chocolate = 25%Black, 25%Khaki, 50%Chocolate
Chocolate X Black = 50%Black & 50%Chocolate
Chocolate X Khaki = 50%Chocolate & 50%Khaki
Khaki X Black = 100%Chocolate
Khaki X Khaki = 100%Khaki
I ask you what could be nicer to have than a Chocolate chicken that lays Chocolate eggs? Except maybe sitting in a lawn chair on a cool spring morning, watching your chocolate chickens, while sipping a cup of warm cocoa and nibbling on a warm chocolate fudge nut brownie? You only live once so indulge ocassionally. LOL
#3 Andalusian Blue: Laced Blue:
Ratio of expected offspring from a laced Blue X Laced Blue mating.
1 Black- 2 Laced Blue- 1 Splash Blue.
Here are a few things that you don't hear from the people who quote genetic script and regurgitate their book knowledge at every opportunity. Laced Blue can be carried on several different shades of back ground. The normal "standard" Blue is a medium Blue base that is contrasting to the darker Blue- Black edge of the feather. By breeding to clean Splashes [Blue X Splash] you can [through careful selection]lighten the back ground while still preserving the darker lacing. I was told by one breeder that this was what he calls "silvery Blue" because it has a shine to it that defies description. Sort of like having silver added to the Blue base to lighten the color and adding highlights.
Breeding Black X Blue together for many generations to avoid the Splash wasters can result in a strange type of mutation that creates Blues that cannot be distinguished from a pure Black.
I had heard about this oddity of Blue but had not experienced it myself until I purchased a Black Sumatra hen and her 6 purebred Sumatra chicks. The following season I could not locate an unrelated Black Sumatra male so I was forced to mate the best 2 sons back to their best type sisters and their mother to start the base for my flock. Out of this mating I produced two of the best Blue Sumatras I had ever seen. On closer examination I found that one of the cockerels and the old hen had a few barely noticable blue ticks in their otherwise pure Black plumage way down in their undercolor. It was one of those things that was so well hidden that you had to be checking for lice to find it.
Since these birds were unpredictable to breed from I sold them to another person who knew their quirks and was happy to get them.
Other things that come with laced Blue. You often find a Red hackle feather in a Black Andalusian and this bird should be culled immediately and not used for breeding. Once Red creeps into the picture you start getting Blues with straw and/or orange in their hackles and later it invades the shoulders and saddles of the males. All of this is covered in the standards and is classed as a disqualification. You can quickly spot these problems by allowing a pair of your best laced Blue birds to mate, hatch a few dozen eggs, and see what tinges and off colors appear on the splashes from this mating. Straw, Orange, and Red will show up like beacons on this lighter back ground.
Ocassionally there will be a few stray Black feathers on an otherwise Blue bird. These are nothing to get excited about but need to be watched carefully and not use the birds that have these stray feathers "in abundance" or you will end up with a bird that is overly splotchy in appearance and this will ruin the over all effect of why you breed laced Blues in the first place. Secondly this is no doubt how the first dark Blues that look like pure Blacks came to be. It probably happened rather suddenly and this was how it avoided detection.
Hopefully this information will help someone who is working with a Blue breed or variety.
Dean
Hi All, Since we are on the subject of Blue breeding let's break it down into various categories of Blue and how they are inherited.
#1 Self Blue: A nonlaced Blue that breeds true when bred Blue to Blue. This color is also known as dove blue,White Blue, and Lavender.
Let's assume that you wish to transfer this color to another breed.
A cross of a Lavender bird to a solid Black will produce all Black in the F1 generation.
In the F2 generation when breeding the offspring of this mating intersee the ratio of offspring should be 3 Black to 1 Self Blue. In reality it takes 2 self Blue genes to produce a Self Blue bird. Genetically if 2 parents carry only 1 gene each for the Self color their offspring will be 1 pure Black that carries no Self Blue genes. There will be 2 offspring that carry the same single gene for the Self Blue color as the parents but a single gene bird cannot express the color so they appear Black. Then there should be 1 bird that is a Self Blue.
So what you get are a ratio of 3 Blacks to 1 Self Blue. You can read where Self Blue X Self Blue begits 100% Blue. This is mostly true but on a rare ocassion you can get an ocassional pure Black chick out of Self Blue parents. This doesn't mean that the stock isn't pure, it just follows the first rule of genetics which states that "Nothing is absolute."
The Self Blue gene turns Red to a Beige color and Black to a dove gray. Self Blue has no effect on Silver so if a Self Bird if bred to a Barred, Mottled, or other silver patterned bird the pattern won't be affected by the cross. Only the Black will be changed to Blue and the silver pattern remains. For a good visual of what I am trying to convey find a good picture of a Porcelain bird and study the colors. Blue replaces Black, fades Red to Beige, and Silver mottling not affected.
People have been playing with this gene for quite some time and as a result it has contaminated other Black breeds. At present I have a strain of some of the finest Black Naked Neck Bantams to be found. However the person whom I purchased my original Black NN Bantam male from had introduced Lavender into his lines and as a result I now have a few Lavender colored NNs in every hatch. Things of this nature come about by irresponsible breeding and by not telling the next person who gets your stock that they are carriers of the Lavender gene.
#2 Blue Dun: This is a Bluish color that looks a lot like Andalusian Blue and is often partly laced. It is the oldest expression of Blue since it comes directly from pit games into our modern breeds. The color is usually nonlaced and is often accompanied by a fawn or brassy tinge over the hackles shoulders and saddles of the males. Hens are very similar to the Andalusian Blue color and normally don't show any tinge of the fawn color.
This color is closely associated with Dominant White and is the color that created the latest new fad color varieties in the show rooms. This color is called Fawn [or Dirty White]in it's raw form and more refined it is called Khaki and Chocolate.
When breeding Blue Dun to itself you will get near the same ratio of colors as you get with Andalusian Blue. These colors are Black, Blue and Splash. If you know what you are looking at then you can't mistake it for true laced Blue. Many of the offspring from these matings will also carry a dark brownish tinted beak and toe nails as well as show some brown or tan over cast to their shanks.
The main difference in this color and breeding the Splash to Splash offspring of laced Blue is that when Dun Splashes are bred together you often get Snow White as well as what some refer to as "Dirty White." This Dirty White or Fawn is where you get Chocolate.
I have also produced clear nonlaced Blue offspring from a straight White X White mating out of Dun derived parents. Needless to say this is an interesting color to work with as well as suprising at the mutations and natural variations that come from such matings.
You are probably wondering why I would bring this up on a dark egg breed board and here is why. The Marans I have seen often show two types of Blue and the Marans were a derivative of pitfowl mixed with other breeds. The Dun gene is in this stock if you know how to bring it to the surface. That sure beats the dickens out of breeding a Chocolate bantam of some type to your large fowl and messing up their size for the next 20 generations or so. Also there is one benefit to breeding a chocolate to a Black Marans and that would be that some of the segregants possess some of the whitest shanks I have ever seen on any type of chicken. Any foreign color in the shanks of your Blacks will be washed out in a single cross. There is something else I wish to pass along and that is that SOME of your Blacks out of Chocolates will have a Fawn tinge to their shanks and this should and can be avoided by using only the Whitest shanked offspring in the breeding pens.
Chocolate also acts a lot like Laced Blue in the fact that Black X Black begits only Black. [We must discount the Carefoot Chocolate Orpingtons at this time b/c they are derived from a different gene where they originated from Black X Black orpington breeding]. Dun breeding ratios below:
Breeding Duns
Chocolate X Chocolate = 25%Black, 25%Khaki, 50%Chocolate
Chocolate X Black = 50%Black & 50%Chocolate
Chocolate X Khaki = 50%Chocolate & 50%Khaki
Khaki X Black = 100%Chocolate
Khaki X Khaki = 100%Khaki
I ask you what could be nicer to have than a Chocolate chicken that lays Chocolate eggs? Except maybe sitting in a lawn chair on a cool spring morning, watching your chocolate chickens, while sipping a cup of warm cocoa and nibbling on a warm chocolate fudge nut brownie? You only live once so indulge ocassionally. LOL
#3 Andalusian Blue: Laced Blue:
Ratio of expected offspring from a laced Blue X Laced Blue mating.
1 Black- 2 Laced Blue- 1 Splash Blue.
Here are a few things that you don't hear from the people who quote genetic script and regurgitate their book knowledge at every opportunity. Laced Blue can be carried on several different shades of back ground. The normal "standard" Blue is a medium Blue base that is contrasting to the darker Blue- Black edge of the feather. By breeding to clean Splashes [Blue X Splash] you can [through careful selection]lighten the back ground while still preserving the darker lacing. I was told by one breeder that this was what he calls "silvery Blue" because it has a shine to it that defies description. Sort of like having silver added to the Blue base to lighten the color and adding highlights.
Breeding Black X Blue together for many generations to avoid the Splash wasters can result in a strange type of mutation that creates Blues that cannot be distinguished from a pure Black.
I had heard about this oddity of Blue but had not experienced it myself until I purchased a Black Sumatra hen and her 6 purebred Sumatra chicks. The following season I could not locate an unrelated Black Sumatra male so I was forced to mate the best 2 sons back to their best type sisters and their mother to start the base for my flock. Out of this mating I produced two of the best Blue Sumatras I had ever seen. On closer examination I found that one of the cockerels and the old hen had a few barely noticable blue ticks in their otherwise pure Black plumage way down in their undercolor. It was one of those things that was so well hidden that you had to be checking for lice to find it.
Since these birds were unpredictable to breed from I sold them to another person who knew their quirks and was happy to get them.
Other things that come with laced Blue. You often find a Red hackle feather in a Black Andalusian and this bird should be culled immediately and not used for breeding. Once Red creeps into the picture you start getting Blues with straw and/or orange in their hackles and later it invades the shoulders and saddles of the males. All of this is covered in the standards and is classed as a disqualification. You can quickly spot these problems by allowing a pair of your best laced Blue birds to mate, hatch a few dozen eggs, and see what tinges and off colors appear on the splashes from this mating. Straw, Orange, and Red will show up like beacons on this lighter back ground.
Ocassionally there will be a few stray Black feathers on an otherwise Blue bird. These are nothing to get excited about but need to be watched carefully and not use the birds that have these stray feathers "in abundance" or you will end up with a bird that is overly splotchy in appearance and this will ruin the over all effect of why you breed laced Blues in the first place. Secondly this is no doubt how the first dark Blues that look like pure Blacks came to be. It probably happened rather suddenly and this was how it avoided detection.
Hopefully this information will help someone who is working with a Blue breed or variety.
Dean
Last edited:
Monty thank you. Ive been reading up on the lavender/self blue as much as possible as I plan on getting some Orps. I did see some seriously awsome pics of self blue oegbs that made my incubator scream.
Me too Henny, I copied it for later reading when I have had lots of coffee and feel really awake!
Thanks for posting that Monty, seems to be the most understandable that I have read on blue's......How are you today?
Are you working on blue?
Thanks for posting that Monty, seems to be the most understandable that I have read on blue's......How are you today?
Are you working on blue?
- Thread starter
- #8,639
If I ever tried working with blue chickens again that would be all I had. It is very hard for me to keep things straight and when one breed puts out three colors it is more than I can grasp.
i have three blue hens and only use them sparingly in crosses.
i have three blue hens and only use them sparingly in crosses.
- Feb 24, 2009
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Well the insulin shot went great. I didn't feel a thing. If fact it hurt more when I scraped my arm on the chicks cage and stub my toe on the brooder this morning.
Thanks everyone for the support and the helpful information.
Thanks everyone for the support and the helpful information.
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