Old and Rare Breeds

[BKPUCKETT]

That's why I came to the experts with my question. I'm here to learn.

If beginners can't ask questions without being ridiculed, they'll stop asking, and myths and misinformation will be perpetuated.

The reason they make you to feel ridiculed is they either don't know the answer or they don't want you to know. If you have to run two breeding pens ,one that gets show males and one for show females that is not a verity but two verity's
I can tell you why the old/ experienced breeder is OK with double matting and the beginner isn't
If the Slandered was so that one mating produced both male and female a beginner could go to the standard and pick his breeders.
If you have to double mate then a beginner has to learn what defect will produce a show bird, the old/experienced breeder
already knows, that gives him an advantage.

Breed for type first and then color is just a way to say I don't know how to get color or I'm not going to tell you.
No mater how good the type is if the color isn't good you will not get a ribbon.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

I may have mentioned before that I don't show (not that I won't) but the only birds I'm currently breeding are Black Penedesencas and not likely to find a place in a show for them.
But every chick that comes out and more closely meets the standard (Catalonian, Irish and Argentinian) from birth to maturity does make me proud. I never plan on messing with a good thing. A truly unique bird - according to the standard.

we need to change that with the penedesenca and get them the love they deserve from the public.

 

[Lacy Blues]

The reason they make you to feel ridiculed is they either don't know the answer or they don't want you to know. If you have to run two breeding pens ,one that gets show males and one for show females that is not a verity but two verity's
I can tell you why the old/ experienced breeder is OK with double matting and the beginner isn't
If the Slandered was so that one mating produced both male and female a beginner could go to the standard and pick his breeders.
If you have to double mate then a beginner has to learn what defect will produce a show bird, the old/experienced breeder
already knows, that gives him an advantage.

Breed for type first and then color is just a way to say I don't know how to get color or I'm not going to tell you.
No mater how good the type is if the color isn't good you will not get a ribbon.

Point #1... I beg to differ. I think the comments you are responding to were directed toward Walt who is a Poultry Judge. I think your statement of "they either don't know the answer or they don't want you to know" is pretty off the wall. Walt knows his stuff and he is also very very helpful in helping people understand his answers to the questions they ask him. If he seemed a bit short in his reply its probably because he's had a long day or he's had to deal with a lot of people thinking they know what they're talking about. This tends to make a person a bit snippy at times.

Point #2... You are so very wrong here. Of course you need color but there is an old quote: "First you have to build the barn and then you can paint it." Of course while choosing birds to breed together, you need to consider color... for instance, if you're trying to breed a speckled bird and you have birds that are laced instead, you don't use such a thing. If you are trying to fix someone's screw ups in just putting two birds together no matter what they look like or what color they are, if you're building your bird, you need to work on type first. If you add new blood to your line, you need to consider type first... unless OF COURSE there is some terribly foreign color on the thing... then you don't use it.

Remember too, you need type AND color. You can't win the Mediterranean class with a perfectly colored Light Brown Leghorn that looks like an Orpington!

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[fowlman01]

I think this is a good statement to remember. If folks can't ask for opinions and/or information
without feeling we are being admonished then they quit asking and just play it by wing so
to speak. Never lose the opportunity to educate while encouraging them to keep learning
and coming back for more. JMHO

She did not ask a question....she stated her opinion, which was incorrect. That is quite different. I have no problem answering questions.

Walt
EDIT:

Where is the question here?
Originally Posted by hallerlake

I'm not an expert Lord knows, but I thought I was supposed to breed my best of both sexes. The idea of breeding inferior birds for the sake of shows troubles me. It seems like putting style over substance. I realize it's not the breeders' fault if the show standards have put them in this position.

All this is an incorrect assumption/opinion based on one persons misunderstanding of what was posted. I usually answer opinions in the same way they are posted. I don't use happy faces or any of the other nice things others use.

w.

 

[cubalaya]

was it fade or fad breeding? what is the big fad this year? we never had lavender or chocolate orpingtons, coronation sussex, or swedish flower hens because they seemed like fad breeds. i have been breeding for type first and then color. is this the wrong thing now?

 

[saladin]

Dang y'all know I think faster than I can type! Plus, I can't spell anyway. Never could; probably never will learn how too; just too old now.

It was Fad Breeding.

Let's take some examples:

Wyandottes with Orpington arses.
Old English Game Bantams that don't look like Games.
There are plenty of others.

Breed to the Standard: it is the safest route to take.

 

[saladin]

Y'all think my typing is bad. LOL.

If I typed the way I talked then only a very limited number of you would be able to understand me at all.

Just ask Walt. LOL.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Dang y'all know I think faster than I can type! Plus, I can't spell anyway. Never could; probably never will learn how too; just too old now.

It was Fad Breeding.

Let's take some examples:

Wyandottes with Orpington arses.
Old English Game Bantams that don't look like Games.
There are plenty of others.

Breed to the Standard: it is the safest route to take.

When I still had wyandotte bantams, I remember battling with people about the tails. The problem with orpingtons these days is that there are so many imported orps from the UK which to me are just a clean legged, white skinned cochin. I am not a fan of orpingtons and never have been but the US standard type is more applealing to my eye than the cochin culls they call UK orpingtons.

With the other imported fad breeds, I only have legbars because I want them for a utility bird. Around here, we have our show birds that we breed to the standard for the shows and we have our utility birds. The utility birds are a red line of birds and a silver line of birds that are all mixed up that we breed a red rooster on silver hens for sexlinks. The sexlinks are our big sellers, we sell to the local pet/feed stores in the area and we eat the cockerels or sell them as feeders. I was in the process of making my own legbars before they were imported but gave it up once they were. I am breeding them towards a utility bird like they are supposed to be. So many folks are already worrying about color and not production it seems.

 

[Ivagrove]

JMHO, but I think that chickens in general and rare breeds in particular, would be better off if there was no double mating. I know it is a fact of life for doing well in exhibition, but look at what happened to the brown leghorn. They were double mated until the male and female lines diverged so much that they were no longer seen as a single variety, and were split off into the light brown and dark brown we have today. So my rhetorical question is: If the males and the females have to be bred from separate lines, do you really have one variety, or two? I think the very concept of what a variety is becomes blurred.

 

[BKPUCKETT]

JMHO, but I think that chickens in general and rare breeds in particular, would be better off if there was no double mating. I know it is a fact of life for doing well in exhibition, but look at what happened to the brown leghorn. They were double mated until the male and female lines diverged so much that they were no longer seen as a single variety, and were split off into the light brown and dark brown we have today. So my rhetorical question is: If the males and the females have to be bred from separate lines, do you really have one variety, or two? I think the very concept of what a variety is becomes blurred.

You say it so much nicer than I can