Oprah at the beef packing plant-Feb 1

[herfrds]

NO I just gotta ask.

You keep posting all these links and I admit that I don't bother to read them.
What are these people's qualification to tell us how to raise our animals and grain?
how much time have they spent at the front end of the cow and how much time at the rear?

Just because they spent years studying does not make them the best experts to me.
I actually saw an "expert" going down the Missouri River and telling the people with them that ALL the damage to the cottonwoods was caused by cattle.
Never knew cattle could chew a ring around a tree like a beaver.

 

[txchickie]

People forget that cattle do not feel sorry for themselves. To them, hanging out in a fenced pen with an abundant supply of a precisely measured and formulated feed (and it's not just corn), along with plenty of fresh water is just fine to them. They don't pout because they can't frolick in green grass fields and lounge on soft hay. I think people try to put human emotions on animals and it's just not that way.

I just want to state that I think organic is great. I'm not knocking it at all, not even a little bit. But the fear mongering and scare tactics of those in the organics industry is ridiculous. They have no other way to promote their product without bashing modern farming methods.

 

[Katy]

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[Organics North]

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I will say I have seen some pretty poor self proclaimed experts myself.... No one is an expert on all aspects of agriculture, it is a big field.. IMO we need diversity and all types, from scientists to ranch hands... Me I appreciate the "birds eye view" of "experts" from time to time...
You know in the Military they have Generals for a reason.... Grunts on the ground and in the trenches do not always see the bigger picture.

OK links, the last one I posted from Frontline PBS, had many links to CCD and FDA on issues relating to antibiotics and concern over the usage for feed conversion in livestock.

ON

 

[Organics North]

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Wow.. you know how cattle or any other of gods creatures feel? I am impressed...

Some cultures/religions consider them to be holly. Not I but some do..!
Me I have no idea how a chicken or a cow feels, heck most of the time I do not even know how another human really feels... Yes I think it is silly when people put human emotions on non human creatures too... I think we can tell when livestock is content and not stressed, but that is far as we can take it in my mind.

Again, I do not consider questioning practice as fear mongering and scare tactics... How big of a Salmonella outbreak or e Coli outbreak do we need in order for some to have concern about the safety and quality of or foods??????????????????????

I mean really that last salmonella outbreak with it in the eggs is a big deal!... Rodent droppings have gotten into feed since animals were domesticated.... I bet nearly every chicken on the planet has ate a rodent dropping or two.. I feel some thing is wrong with the chickens immune systems to let that salmonella pass through into the egg..

Be sure to tell me when that happens in a small free range flock or even in a production organic flock..

ON

 

[True Grit]

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I see from just internet research that monensin sodium has been used for a long time to increase feed conversion efficiency however I don't know how commonly it is used. AKA Rumensin, also used in dairy. It is not an antibiotic but an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and anti-protozoal. I'll try to get more info from other resources.

 

[herfrds]

Got a good chuckle tonight at a Herd Health meeting.
Now I was at the back of the room so I couldn't see the small print telling me the date of the study or who did it, but it showed that in 1 pound of beef that came from an animal that has beem implated with the growth hormone contains 11 nanagrams of estrogen. Same amount of non implanted beef contains 8 nanagrams of estrogen.

Soy oil contains 1,000,000 nanagrams of estrogen.

Humans have over 10,000,000 nanagrams of estrogen.

They did recommend the book, Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes.

Also back in the day when people ate all organic they had a life span of 50 years.
A new study shows there is no difference in eating organic and eating food produced by other means.

 

[Organics North]

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I see from just internet research that monensin sodium has been used for a long time to increase feed conversion efficiency however I don't know how commonly it is used. AKA Rumensin, also used in dairy. It is not an antibiotic but an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and anti-protozoal. I'll try to get more info from other resources.

? I think monensin is still an antibiotic, just not used to fight infection. I see it referenced as an antibiotic some times. (I may be wrong regardless it is an "anti"..

)

One difference in my mind between organic and conventional, is the conventional folks are frequently trying to kill the bad guys microbes,, with the use of anti's of all sorts..... Where organic must rely on promoting good microbes with the use of Pro's of all sorts. We try to create environments where the good microbes have a firm strong rule, which "naturally" suppresses the bad guys. We see the use of "anti's as indiscriminate, little nuclear bombs that kill everything in their path.

Modern organics is NOT tying your hands and going back to the stone age of agriculture...We simply do not feel one can beat mother nature so we work with her promoting the pro microbial world instead of trying to kill the bad guys with anti's..

Here is an interesting study: It is on sheep it compares using Monensin against using Live Yeast for feed conversion in Ruminants. It looks like live yeast performed well!
*Conventional folks, please read it.. I promise it is not a bull pucky propaganda piece..

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effect+of+monensin+and+live+yeast+supplementation+on+growth...-a0177635733

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Interesting! (On the estrogen that is..)

Your point of people dying at 50 back in the day is a good one...

Actually it plays right into my point.....

Lets see the leading cause of death in the USA is cardiovascular disease, cancer is second...... Even just 50 /100 years ago it was things like infections,measles, mumps, rubella and influenza.


IMO studies that make such broad claims either way are a dime a dozen.. IMO we can not prove anything either way yet. (Remember all the studies that said tobacco was not bad.) It took decades to get it straightened out, and this is by no means clear cut, nor is non organic as hazardous as say tobacco.)
I would like to see this study..........

I will look into the book, too... My bias is we get fat from a lack of exercise and too much sugars such as super cheap high fructose corn syrup put into so many processed foods, because they know people have a sweet tooth and if they put sugar in their product more people will buy it..

ON

 

[michickenwrangler]

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Usually historical statistics point out AVERAGE lifespan, which was brought down by high infant mortality rates and women dying in childbirth. Prior to the 1900s, almost 1/5 of women died in childbirth or from complications of it (infection, internal bleeding) shortly after. Plenty of people lived into their 70s and 80s, but again, this "average" is brought down by the factors above.

This is also why the life expectancies of countries like Zambia or Mozambique are so low. 30-35 years.

Remember, this doesn't mean that people drop dead when they turn 35, this is just an average of infant deaths and natural deaths. Countries with very low infant mortality like Sweden, Japan and Andorra have longer life expectancies than countries with higher infant mortality.

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but just trying to clarify the "average life span."

Historical records from the Roman Empire and even from the Middle Ages showed that people AGED the same as they do now. Many Roman soldiers fought into their 60s.

 

[seedcorn]

OK, we agree it's the type of food, abundance of food, lack of exercise that makes people fat.

On the subject of sugar, corn syrup vs. cane sugar is nutrionally, no different. It's just USA labor vs. slave labor. Support who you will, for me USA.

Modern ag does not depend on anti-. Modern ag looks at housing before they look at any other part of an operation. That's why the style of housing keeps changing. If you think a hog would prefer to be in a open lot in this weather vs. warm building--go try it yourself, see where you would be.