Oprah at the beef packing plant-Feb 1

[txchickie]

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If you would like to debate with me, please act like an adult. Feel free to smash your sarcasm and roll your eyes elsewhere.

 

[Katy]

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If you would like to debate with me, please act like an adult. Feel free to smash your sarcasm and roll your eyes elsewhere.

Personally I do think I can tell how my cows (as well as any of my other critters) are feeling......and it isn't anything like a human emotion. Their feelings are driven by instinct as are ours....only ours has some intelligent thinking thrown in to make it emotion, not just instinct.

 

[Organics North]

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If you would like to debate with me, please act like an adult. Feel free to smash your sarcasm and roll your eyes elsewhere.

Personally I do think I can tell how my cows (as well as any of my other critters) are feeling......and it isn't anything like a human emotion. Their feelings are driven by instinct as are ours....only ours has some intelligent thinking thrown in to make it emotion, not just instinct.

Sorry for the stupid remarks TX... I feel it is impossible to debate that one.. None of us real know what is or is not inside of their heads..

Katy, Interesting theory.!!!. I like it, separating instinct and emotion.. Hmmmmm.. Something to contemplate... Then again, I have no idea of what an intellegent thought may be to a cow...

(Always getting the best spot at the feeder?)

For me it is impossible to even attempt guessing at it, I am clouded by human emotion. These conversations are futile to me, unless a cow would join in the conversation....

It really does not matter in my mind anyway.. Every living thing on our planet thrives on the life of something else to create life in itself. It is just the way it is. If alive you eat something else!

Since we humans appear to have a "higher capacity" for good and evil than many other living creatures, it makes sense that we be as mindful and respectful to other living things as we can.. What that means... I would say it varies by individual, culture, religion/spiritual beliefs.. Again, impossible to debate, as most likely there is no single right or wrong answer.
ON

 

[Organics North]

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I have a preference to maple sugar...

The ethic and enviro argument is a good one on sugar!.. If I tried real hard maybe I could stretch it and say that corn sugar is different than cane sugar..

I do not see your point on the hog housing? Indeed optimal conditions for a given species is important.
I do not see what that has to do with my point on the practice of reducing or eliminating the role of microbs in farming. Chem ferts feed the plant directly and harm soil microbs, so do all the anti's inside of a body. This is why they suggest eating yogurt after a course of antibiotics to rebuild the probiotics.

Look at the yeast verses anti study, building probiotics is effective in feed conversion as removing the all microbes with anti's.

I feel we can never win a "war" against bacterium, therefor we need to treat our "troops" of good/pro bacterium well... Let them keep the bad bacterium in check, just as mother nature intended.

Truly understand this, and you will see the the foundation of modern organics.

Essentially I am a microbe farmer..

ON

 

[Katy]

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With all the hours I've spent working cattle, to me it's more than a theory. Believe me I've had many a conversation with cows, bulls and calves......just not in words....at least not on their part. Their lives are just not run by emotions as ours are. A mother cow doesn't take care of her calf by the same mothering emotion that most humans do.......she takes care of it because of mothering instinct.....a bull doesn't breed his cows because he loves them......he's driven by instinct/mother nature to perpetuate the species. Cattle are creatures of routine....whether it's in a pasture for the majority of their lives or a feedlot for the last 3 months of their lives. As long as they have access to food and water they are "content".

 

[Rozzie]

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Plenty of human sex is going on for reasons other than love...Instinct? No. Hormones? Most definitely. Nothing to do with emotion.

 

[Katy]

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Plenty of human sex is going on for reasons other than love...Instinct? No. Hormones? Most definitely. Nothing to do with emotion.

Yep, I agree there's too much breeding going on among the human race that has nothing to do with emotions only hormones, but that's not what this conversation was about.

 

[True Grit]

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I see from just internet research that monensin sodium has been used for a long time to increase feed conversion efficiency however I don't know how commonly it is used. AKA Rumensin, also used in dairy. It is not an antibiotic but an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and anti-protozoal. I'll try to get more info from other resources.

? I think monensin is still an antibiotic, just not used to fight infection. I see it referenced as an antibiotic some times. (I may be wrong regardless it is an "anti"..

)

You may be right. When I looked on one site (maybe Elanco,I can't recall), they listed monensin sodium as I mentioned above. An FDA site I saw today discussed a study on e. coli reduction and mentioned monensin sodium as an antibiotic which is not effective on e. coli. The thing I still haven't found out is how commonly it is fed in the feedlot. Someone else may know firsthand. It seems it is allowed to be fed so as it's been deemed to be safe by the FDA it leads me to assume it's pretty common. I also don't know if there is a withdrawal period prior to slaughter or not. I'll still try to find out for sure.

 

[herfrds]

Getting back the subject of this thread.

I remember the last time I watched Oprah and someone said she would be unbiased.
I don't think so.
The subject was the prposed law in California concerning the housing of chickens producing eggs.
anybody else remember that?

Where did the head of the organization sit?
Where was Oprah?
Where did the egg producers sit?
Who kept butting in and was rudly interrupting people speaking?

On stage
on stage
In the audince
Head of the organization

 

[PepsNick]

Undercover footage of places like these are why I became vegeterian. I thought about only eating local meat a few weeks ago, but this should change my mind.