Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :
Quote:
Actually you did. Your "you" pronoun applies to a class: Modern Commercial Farmers. Since I am a member of that class you implied that I was dumping "tons of toxic crap" on my farm fields........
Jim
No, that is NOT what I meant. There are plenty of people who use toxic chemicals, besides some modern commercial farmers. (Not all MCF's do.) Backyard gardeners, people who like weed-free lawns, ordinary suburnanites, and lots of others. You read into my post something that wasn't there. My "you" meant anybody who uses large amounts of pesticides etc. It does not mean everybody with a garden. It does not mean everybody with a lawn. It does not even mean every modern commercial farmer. There are some modern commercial farmers who are very careful what they use. There are some who are not careful. Which one you are, I don't know.
But I do know what I meant when I wrote it, and you are not very good at mindreading.
About Round-Up, here's one source, there are more if you really want them, I'll gladly provide the links. One thing stands out, the glyphosate alone is not as bad as the entire Round-Up formulation. The chemicals evidently combine in such a way as to cause a lot more damage when combined, which is one of the concerns many have had for years. Environmental damage and death of organisms has been observed at levels much lower than is normally produced by "correct" application.
From this link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#Human_and_mammalian_health_effects
"Toxicity
......A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and umbilical cells in vitro even at low concentrations. The effects were not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations (glyphosate) but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the Roundup formulation.
Endocrine disruptor
A 2000 in vitro study on mouse MA-10 cells concluded that Roundup inhibited progesterone production by disrupting StAR protein expression.[15]
A 2005 in vitro study on human placental JEG3 cells concluded that the glyphosate disruption of aromatase is facilitated by adjuvants of the Roundup formulation.[16]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver HepG2 cells has observed endocrine disruption at sub-agricultural doses, where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate concentration.[17]
Genetic damage
A 1998 study on mice concluded that Roundup is able to cause genetic damage. The authors concluded that the damage was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of the herbicide mixture".[18]
A 2009 study on mice has found that a single intraperitoneal injection of Roundup in concentration of 25 mg/kg caused chromosomal aberrations and induction of micronuclei.[19]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver cells has observed DNA damages at sub-agricultural doses, where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate concentration.[17]
Ecologic effects
A 2000 review of the toxicological data on Roundup concluded that "for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was predicted for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also concluded that there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to Roundup in shallow water.[20]
Aquatic effects
Fish and aquatic invertebrates are more sensitive to Roundup than terrestrial organisms.[20] Glyphosate is generally less persistent in water than in soil, with 12 to 60 day persistence observed in Canadian pond water, yet persistence of over a year have been observed in the sediments of ponds in Michigan and Oregon.[7]
The EU classifies Roundup as R51/53 Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.[21]
Although Roundup is not registered for aquatic uses[22] and studies of its effects on amphibians indicate it is toxic to them,[23] scientists have found that it may wind up in small wetlands where tadpoles live due to inadvertent spraying during its application. A recent study found that even at concentrations one-third of the maximum concentrations expected in nature, Roundup still killed up to 71 percent of tadpoles raised in outdoor tanks."
There's more, but you probably get the idea. It sounds pretty toxic to me. I am not posting this to pick an argument with you. I have friends and family members who sometimes use things I believe to be bad for them, and I tell them. Sometimes, they listen. If I am using something that is bad for me, and I don't know, I appreciate it if somebody tells me. I thank them for their concern for my well-being. Instead of considering it a personal attack, I do a little research, and if I find they are correct, and it's something I can possibly do without, I stop using it. Then, I thank them for alerting me to a hazard I had been unaware of.
I do not ask or expect any such thing from you.
Quote:
Actually you did. Your "you" pronoun applies to a class: Modern Commercial Farmers. Since I am a member of that class you implied that I was dumping "tons of toxic crap" on my farm fields........
Jim
No, that is NOT what I meant. There are plenty of people who use toxic chemicals, besides some modern commercial farmers. (Not all MCF's do.) Backyard gardeners, people who like weed-free lawns, ordinary suburnanites, and lots of others. You read into my post something that wasn't there. My "you" meant anybody who uses large amounts of pesticides etc. It does not mean everybody with a garden. It does not mean everybody with a lawn. It does not even mean every modern commercial farmer. There are some modern commercial farmers who are very careful what they use. There are some who are not careful. Which one you are, I don't know.
But I do know what I meant when I wrote it, and you are not very good at mindreading.
About Round-Up, here's one source, there are more if you really want them, I'll gladly provide the links. One thing stands out, the glyphosate alone is not as bad as the entire Round-Up formulation. The chemicals evidently combine in such a way as to cause a lot more damage when combined, which is one of the concerns many have had for years. Environmental damage and death of organisms has been observed at levels much lower than is normally produced by "correct" application.
From this link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#Human_and_mammalian_health_effects
"Toxicity
......A 2008 scientific study has shown that Roundup formulations and metabolic products cause the death of human embryonic, placental, and umbilical cells in vitro even at low concentrations. The effects were not proportional to the main active ingredient concentrations (glyphosate) but dependent on the nature of the adjuvants used in the Roundup formulation.
Endocrine disruptor
A 2000 in vitro study on mouse MA-10 cells concluded that Roundup inhibited progesterone production by disrupting StAR protein expression.[15]
A 2005 in vitro study on human placental JEG3 cells concluded that the glyphosate disruption of aromatase is facilitated by adjuvants of the Roundup formulation.[16]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver HepG2 cells has observed endocrine disruption at sub-agricultural doses, where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate concentration.[17]
Genetic damage
A 1998 study on mice concluded that Roundup is able to cause genetic damage. The authors concluded that the damage was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of the herbicide mixture".[18]
A 2009 study on mice has found that a single intraperitoneal injection of Roundup in concentration of 25 mg/kg caused chromosomal aberrations and induction of micronuclei.[19]
A 2009 in vitro experiment with glyphosate formulations on human liver cells has observed DNA damages at sub-agricultural doses, where a Roundup formulation showed to be the most active formulation. The effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate concentration.[17]
Ecologic effects
A 2000 review of the toxicological data on Roundup concluded that "for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was predicted for potentially exposed nontarget organisms". It also concluded that there were some risks to aquatic organisms exposed to Roundup in shallow water.[20]
Aquatic effects
Fish and aquatic invertebrates are more sensitive to Roundup than terrestrial organisms.[20] Glyphosate is generally less persistent in water than in soil, with 12 to 60 day persistence observed in Canadian pond water, yet persistence of over a year have been observed in the sediments of ponds in Michigan and Oregon.[7]
The EU classifies Roundup as R51/53 Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.[21]
Although Roundup is not registered for aquatic uses[22] and studies of its effects on amphibians indicate it is toxic to them,[23] scientists have found that it may wind up in small wetlands where tadpoles live due to inadvertent spraying during its application. A recent study found that even at concentrations one-third of the maximum concentrations expected in nature, Roundup still killed up to 71 percent of tadpoles raised in outdoor tanks."
There's more, but you probably get the idea. It sounds pretty toxic to me. I am not posting this to pick an argument with you. I have friends and family members who sometimes use things I believe to be bad for them, and I tell them. Sometimes, they listen. If I am using something that is bad for me, and I don't know, I appreciate it if somebody tells me. I thank them for their concern for my well-being. Instead of considering it a personal attack, I do a little research, and if I find they are correct, and it's something I can possibly do without, I stop using it. Then, I thank them for alerting me to a hazard I had been unaware of.
I do not ask or expect any such thing from you.
