Outcrossing to improve type

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by InviteTanner, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. InviteTanner

    InviteTanner Out Of The Brooder

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    Feb 8, 2011
    Can anyone explain to me why, when outcrossing on different varieties within a breed, you can only use particular colors? For example, a top show quality white wyandotte would NOT be a choice to improve the BLR type. Or a GL would NOT be a choice to improve a SP. Thanks in advance for your time.
     
  2. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    I think you can you use such color varities but it will slow getting back to color pattern desired. More generations and possibly more birds each generation would make project more expensive.
     
  3. punky rooster

    punky rooster Awesome

    Jul 21, 2010
    Quote:I agree.
     
  4. InviteTanner

    InviteTanner Out Of The Brooder

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    It seems that it's going to be expensive either way you go. By using a less typey variety, you're keeping the color close but are slower to acheive the type. Can I assume that the folks that are serious about improving type have tried both ways?
     
  5. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:Yes. I am going the conflicting color route this time. Desired outcome expected in about 20 years.
     
  6. tandersphoenix

    tandersphoenix Chillin' With My Peeps Premium Member

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    You are better off time wise if you can find a good bird that is also good colored. I would search for someone who had exactly what you are needing for your line. But if that does not exist color can be fixed later but will probably take you 3 to 5 years to do so.
     
  7. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    There are some indirect advantages of going the conflicting color route. More likely the genetic differences unrelated to color or type greater. This can increase genetic diversity of final product promoting its vitality and fertility.
     
  8. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:The genetic makeup of the two varieties and the variety you want to improve determines the cross.

    Improving BLR with white is not a good idea because white birds are genetically different than a BLR- after the cross the offspring would not be BLR and you would have to do some back crossing to the BLR to obtain the lacing. This defeats the purpose of improving type- the birds would also gain the BLR type.

    Improving white by out crossing to a different variety would work well because the white color is determined by one recessive gene. All you have to do is two crosses and you would have white birds.

    Gold laced could be used to improve silver penciled but you would have to understand sex linkage in chickens to decrease the number of crosses. There are only three major genetic differences between the two varieties. Gold verses silver alleles , Melanotic verses non-melanotic alleles, and columbian verses-non-columbian alleles.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  9. InviteTanner

    InviteTanner Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you Tad, these are the answers I'm looking for. I need to understand how these things work. Where would you recommend I go to become educated on what the acceptable crosses are for varieties within a breed?
     
  10. sjarvis00

    sjarvis00 Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 4, 2009
    Shawnee, OKlahoma
    There are a great number of good poultry genetic books, and articles. By staying with birds of very similar genetic make-up such as same pattern, and genetic base you can fairly quickly (3-5 generation) achieve your goals so long as you are very selective.
    as and example we have been working on type improvement with Birchen Oe bantams. For this I used a Birchen male over brown Red females, this yeilded all birchen Pullets and Golden Birchen males. This Pullets from this mating were selcted for the traits I want in teh following generation and for type improvement. These Pullets will be placed two ways two will be placed under the original Birchen male to gain an additional cockrell. the others will placed back with a brother of the best type, this mating may produce a Birchen cockrell but will produce better typed birchen pullets. The problem is I expect over a 90% cull rate so will need to produce several hundred chicks to select just 8-10 future breeders.
     

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