Parasites! If you can easily get an upset tummy don't click this!

[rosemarythyme]

I did the ant test that @dawg53 had suggested in an earlier post. I put DE on the pile and came back the next day and there were still ants. I put some permethrin dust on the ant pile and the next day no ants. They either moved or died.

I actually did try DE on ants (like you, I bought a bag (small) of it when I first got chickens, because I thought it was a great idea... and then I didn't know what to do with it). Had a colony of ants in my wood chip pile, dumped the entire amount of DE on it and the ants did disappear.

Of course they could've just moved somewhere else in the yard, but at least they vacated the wood chips. Or maybe it's the sheer amount of DE I dumped that basically suffocated them, who knows.

 

[cmom]

I didn't put a small bags worth on the ant pile but did cover it with the DE. Once I did it with fire ants and the next times was carpenter ants at our barn. Both times there were still ants but then I put the permethrin poultry dust on the piles and when I went out to check the next day no ants both times. I haven't seen anymore ants around the barn. I have came across some fire ants now and then. They may just move around, I don't know.

 

[cmom]

Thatsnot to say you will possibly still need to vaccinate. Im just saying there ARE CLEAR BENEFITS

This wasnt hype...this was a University study with no skin in the game one way or the other. Are you sayng the school is wrong...thats a bit presumptuous! I dont think my comments were pro or against vaccines.....I simply said according to the results of the study there were still reasons to use DE that were positive for anyones flock! Did you read thr study results?

I have read several studies, maybe not that particular one.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

I found this research on DE. While it is not a perfect cure all. To say it doesnt work is misleading. It obviously is very beneficial to hen health and egg production and DOES reduce the worm load in chickens significantly per the study. So by the papers own findings...which are limited...the more time on DE...the better off your flock will be.

I've read this study before. Did you read it thoroughly?
Excerpt:
"We therefore conclude that the effect of DE on internal parasites was not robust. It did not improve resistance in birds that were genetically more resistant but may help birds that were less resistant to lower their parasite load."

Saying that it reduces the worm load significantly is misleading.

 

[Trisseh]

The reduction in worm load could have been coincidental in such a study. Burdens wax and wane based on the season and the load in the environment. I run a LOT of fecal samples on various critters and I could tell you a lot about seasonality and even temperature effects on parasites.

the only way to truly know if your dewormer is doing it’s job is to do fecal examinations prior to treatment, and again after whatever life cycle timeline is for the parasite you’re treating. (Usually for cattle and small ruminants, we check them 3-4 weeks following treatment, to give an example.)

DE is entirely ineffective (for anything) once it is wet. Once it gets into the chicken it’s useless. It is a desiccant. It draws in moisture. I have used it as a layer on top of my feed bag liner prior to putting fresh bedding down, but only to soak up some excess moisture. If I have parasites, I use an appropriate treatment for them.

I have people telling me all the time that they give DE to their calves to prevent worms. What they don’t understand/realize is that the premise of giving the calves DE is to distract them from munching on and licking the things that they would be obtaining oocysts from. So yes, in a roundabout way, the DE is helping with the worm burden, but only by the fact that they are spending their time playing around in it rather than licking the manure off the walls.

As for withdrawal times. If you are using the eggs for your own consumption, and are aware of the risks (if any) involved with ingesting possible residues, have at it. I eat the eggs from my birds after dosing with certain drugs. No problem.
If you are selling or giving away eggs, you have a moral obligation to ensure the safety of those you are giving those eggs to, or at the very least give them the ability to choose the amount of risk they’re willing to take. If you’re giving eggs to friends or family, give them the heads up and allow them to make their own decision.

One other point on what to do with discard eggs. It was mentioned to incubate the eggs with possible residues. In most cases this probably will not cause any issues. In others, depending on the drug, it may increase your risk of deformities or other problems with the resulting hatchlings. I’ll have to go looking and see if I can find any information on Valbazen in poultry specifically, but that particular medication does have detrimental effects on cow and small ruminant fetuses depending on gestational age. I’m not sure if there are any documented issues for poultry, but something worth thinking about.

 

[Asm610]

I've read this study before. Did you read it thoroughly?
Excerpt:
"We therefore conclude that the effect of DE on internal parasites was not robust. It did not improve resistance in birds that were genetically more resistant but may help birds that were less resistant to lower their parasite load."

Saying that it reduces the worm load significantly is misleading.

I dont think it was misleading at all...especially since I attached the paper to my post. It states it helps birds that are less resistant to LOWER THEIR PARASITE LOAD....isnt that what we all want to achieve in our flocks.....as close to nil as possible.....saying DE is useless is misleading to me...thats why I went and did research....to each his own everyone is free to do as they please Im just posting information for those that want it! Seems theres a vaccine lobby on here that gets offended whrn you mention any natural alternative preventative therapies. I clearly stated iy wasnt a cure for worms or parasites...what more do I need to do....go into Garlic, Cayenne pumpkin seeds.etc.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

I dont think it was misleading at all...especially since I attached the paper to my post. It states it helps birds that are less resistant to LOWER THEIR PARASITE LOAD....isnt that what we all want to achieve in our flocks.....as close to nil as possible.....saying DE is useless is misleading to me...thats why I went and did research....to each his own everyone is free to do as they please Im just posting information for those that want it! Seems theres a vaccine lobby on here that gets offended whrn you mention any natural alternative preventative therapies. I clearly stated iy wasnt a cure for worms or parasites...what more do I need to do....go into Garlic, Cayenne pumpkin seeds.etc.

You said DE:

DOES reduce the worm load in chickens significantly per the study.

When in fact the study does not say that. So, maybe not misleading, just flat untrue.

What you're calling a "vaccine lobby" are a bunch of people that have spent a ton of time researching and putting these "theories" into practice, effectively learning the hard way what works and what does not.

Someone is looking for advice and they are looking in a great place for it. They can choose to use it however they wish. Everyone has their own opinions and experiences. Saying "I just found a study online that I read real fast" doesn't hold much merit and hardly helps.

For other people that read these threads, I am pointing out that the study doesn't say what you claim - in case they don't actually read it.

 

[Asm610]

Did you READ the study....there WAS a SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE!

 

[Asm610]

You might want to read this part of the study again.......

 

[Trisseh]

Very small sample size in that study with no supporting additional studies to back them up. Actually, the other studies they refer to within their own paper contradict theirs. There’s a reason there is no label claim for parasiticide action on DE.

My opinion would be that it’s the same effect as in the calves - they play around in the DE and spend less time ingesting oocysts from other matter that they could be picking through.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having our own opinions and doing what we feel is best for our birds. It’s commendable in each and every poultry keeper to do their own research and use what they find works for them. There’s also nothing wrong with trying to find natural ways to deal with problems. That doesn’t mean it’s right to make broad statements that aren’t necessarily completely accurate. Agree to disagree, offer your opinion as just that, and move on.