Peafowl 201: Further Genetics- Colors, Patterns, and More

[Peafowlssssssss]

Is there no possibility for a dark pied out of a mating between a pied and a white bird?

No, because the chick from this mating will only get one pied gene from the pied parent, and the white parent will only pass the white gene. And a dark pied bird should have two pied genes.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Here are the possibilities to get dark birds as I know:

1- pied x pied= 25% offspring will be dark pied.
2-silver pied x silver pied = 25%. dark pied.
3- dark pied x pied= 50% dark pied.
4- dark pied x split pied= 50% dark pied.
5- split pied x split pied= 25% dark pied.
6- pied x split pied= 25% dark pied(not sure of this one).
7- pied x silver pied= 25% dark pied.

 

[Kedreeva]

Here are the possibilities to get dark birds as I know:

1- pied x pied= 25% offspring will be dark pied.
2-silver pied x silver pied = 25%. dark pied.
3- dark pied x pied= 50% dark pied.
4- dark pied x split pied= 50% dark pied.
5- split pied x split pied= 25% dark pied.
6- pied x split pied= 25% dark pied(not sure of this one).
7- pied x silver pied= 25% split pied.

I would think that a dark pied x split pied bird would give the same % as a pied x split pied bird, considering the pied and dark pied are the same genetically. The other 25% would be blue (from split pied parent) split pied (from dark pied parent) wouldn't they? It would be more like 50% pied, 25% dark pied, 25% blue split pied I would think?

As an aside, pied x pied I know creates 25% dark pied and 50% pied- what's the other 25% I can't seem to recall

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

I would think that a dark pied x split pied bird would give the same % as a pied x split pied bird, considering the pied and dark pied are the same genetically. The other 25% would be blue (from split pied parent) split pied (from dark pied parent) wouldn't they? It would be more like 50% pied, 25% dark pied, 25% blue split pied I would think?

As an aside, pied x pied I know creates 25% dark pied and 50% pied- what's the other 25% I can't seem to recall

The other 25% is white.

No, dark pieds and pieds are different, a dark pied bird means he has two pied genes, so his offspring will only gets pied gene from him, but a pied will have one pied gene and one white gene.

So when mating a dark pied male with a pied hen the male has two pied genes, so every chick should get a pied from him since he has two pied genes, but their mom has two different genes, one pied and the other is white, so can either pass the white gene or the pied gene for her chicks, and if the chick gets a pied gene from her he will be dark pied, because he already has a pied gene from his father and with this second pied gene from his mom he will have two, so he will be called dark pied. But if the chick got the white gene from his mom then he will be pied, because he already has the pied gene from his father and with having both genes together(white and pied) will make the bird called pied.

So the percentage here is 50%-50%, because 50% from the chicks will get a white gene from their mom and the other 50% will get the pied gene from her.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Pied(lets say male) x split pied(hen) will give this:
25% pied, got one white gene from dad and a pied gene from the hen.
25% split white, got only the white gene from dad.
25% split pied, got only the pied gene from dad.
25% dark pied, got pied gene from both parents.

You can change the genders here of course, its just making it easier for me to understand.

 

[Kedreeva]

The other 25% is white.

No, dark pieds and pieds are different, a dark pied bird means he has two pied genes, so his offspring will only gets pied gene from him, but a pied will have one pied gene and one white gene.

So when mating a dark pied male with a pied hen the male has two pied genes, so every chick should get a pied from him since he has two pied genes, but their mom has two different genes, one pied and the other is white, so can either pass the white gene or the pied gene for her chicks, and if the chick gets a pied gene from her he will be dark pied, because he already has a pied gene from his father and with this second pied gene from his mom he will have two, so he will be called dark pied. But if the chick got the white gene from his mom then he will be pied, because he already has the pied gene from his father and with having both genes together(white and pied) will make the bird called pied.

So the percentage here is 50%-50%, because 50% from the chicks will get a white gene from their mom and the other 50% will get the pied gene from her.

Fascinating!

One more question (sorry for all the questions) so I have a dark pied male. His parents were both silver pied birds, who should have some combination of white, pied, and white-eye from my understanding of it. I've only started hatching from him this year. He is over two pied blues and a white eye (not sure of the rest of her genes, though she's got a nice white throat and white primaries, not sure if that happens if a bird has only white-eye in them). So far I have gotten 2 w/e kids (assume they are from the w/e hen), around a half dozen dark pieds, around a half dozen pieds, one pied I would consider "loud" (lots of white, but not enough to be silver pied and no w/e), one pied w/e, and two silver pieds. Someone else who hatched my eggs this year has gotten dark pied, w/e, pied, and silver pied.

by your above explanation, if he is dark pied, he shouldn't be carrying the white gene, which makes sense in that I haven't gotten any white babies. But shouldn't he also not be able to produce silver pied offspring?

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Fascinating!

One more question (sorry for all the questions) so I have a dark pied male. His parents were both silver pied birds, who should have some combination of white, pied, and white-eye from my understanding of it. I've only started hatching from him this year. He is over two pied blues and a white eye (not sure of the rest of her genes, though she's got a nice white throat and white primaries, not sure if that happens if a bird has only white-eye in them). So far I have gotten 2 w/e kids (assume they are from the w/e hen), around a half dozen dark pieds, around a half dozen pieds, one pied I would consider "loud" (lots of white, but not enough to be silver pied and no w/e), one pied w/e, and two silver pieds. Someone else who hatched my eggs this year has gotten dark pied, w/e, pied, and silver pied.

by your above explanation, if he is dark pied, he shouldn't be carrying the white gene, which makes sense in that I haven't gotten any white babies. But shouldn't he also not be able to produce silver pied offspring?

He will be able since he is dark pied from silver pied parents, which means he has also two w/e genes, so he is different from the dark pied birds which came from pied parents, i believe your w/e hen is also split white, and she could be out of single silver pied parent? If this is the case, then half her chicks could be silver pieds, other half will be split pied. I believe if the hen has many white primaries then she could be split white, and many hens have surprised me this year by being split white.

How could you tell if the chicks are carrying white eye at this age? Mine especially if they were males, will not show the w/e in their trains until they got their full train at the third year. Since your male is out of silver pied parents then he should have 2 w/e genes, so every chick from this pen should get at least single w/e gene from their father.


Of course you will get 50% dark pied chicks from the pied hens, but i think these dark pied chicks will look the same as the white eye chicks hatched from the w/e hen.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Ask as much as you want, we both are learning here

 

[Kedreeva]

He will be able since he is dark pied from silver pied parents, which means he has also two w/e genes, so he is different from the dark pied birds which came from pied parents, i believe your w/e hen is also split white, and she could be out of single silver pied parent? If this is the case, then half her chicks could be silver pieds, other half will be split pied. I believe if the hen has many white primaries then she could be split white, and many hens have surprised me this year by being split white.

How could you tell if the chicks are carrying white eye at this age? Mine especially if they were males, will not show the w/e in their trains until they got their full train at the third year. Since your male is out of silver pied parents then he should have 2 w/e genes, so every chick from this pen should get at least single w/e gene from their father.


Of course you will get 50% dark pied chicks from the pied hens, but i think these dark pied chicks will look the same as the white eye chicks hatched from the w/e hen.

Okay so like I said earlier, I never really learned much about the w/e gene. What's going on with it, genetically, if you know?

As for the hen, I'm not really sure what is going on with her. I bought her three or four years back, from someone at a swap. She was in a big sale cage with blues, blue splits (probably more like dark pieds, looking back), pieds, and a couple of whites. I asked about her, because she was the ONLY visual w/e in the cage, and they didn't even know what the term white-eye meant. I explained it, and they said none of their males had white eyes, and none of their females had the frosted look. Of course, someone could have been carrying just one copy, but no way to tell. They showed me pictures on their phone of the parents, looked like a blue split and a pied. Suppose it's possible that her dad was a dark silver pied? But seems unlikely, silver pied is kind of unknown in these parts- in the 12 years I've been perusing nearby peafowl stock for sale, I've only ever seen 2, and one of them was just over the border in the next state.

As for the w/e chicks, I have no idea if they are carrying just one gene, but the ones who are carrying 2, they're very clearly lighter and frosty looking.

One of my dark pieds:

You can see the black stripes on his wings

Versus one of my white-eye chicks:



The flash hasn't washed out anything on that bird. The striping is super pale, almost silvery, it's very pretty.

I will see if I can grab a photo of the two next to each other, I actually still have both of them.

I do have a photo of the one pied w/e that hatched:


Again, really light coloration compared to the other pieds, but I sold that one before it was even a week old to someone that came by to get some older ones, so I don't have any later photos. Should have kept it, I'm sure it would have been really beautiful.

As for Dad, if he has 2 copies of the W/E gene, shouldn't he be WE as well? He has never had a white eye in any of his trains, and all his feathers are the normal, vibrant color, no "dusting" or "frosty" look to them at all. Here's a pic of him (we have to clip his train short because he was injured when he was young and only uses 1 leg to walk now):


I mean I know he has the W/E genes, because of his parentage, but he doesn't show any of it, so I assumed maybe he only had 1 copy. Also, he's 5 years old, so if anything was going to appear I would think it would have by now.

 

[thndrdancr]

Kedreeva,
The two that I had from you that almost hatched both looked white!

I didn't see any dark spots at all, but very hard to tell I know. Might have had light colored spots I didn't see. But they looked white.