PeeWee is sick! UPDATE..FINAL Necropsy Results Page 6

[hdowden]

have you had the others tested for mereks? i would have the live ones tested as well to conform that thats the cause. im sure theres gotta be a way to test for it besides waiting for the birds to die.

 

[Leslieb118]

So far, none of the others are showing any symptoms of anything. He never showed any symptoms of anything though, either, and was 10 months old. How would I go about testing them? Do they test them while alive, or would I have to sacrifice one in order to find out for sure?

 

[CMV]

I believe the testing is done post mortem. I believe it is presumptive testing meaning that if lesions of a certain type are found in certain locations, it is presumed that the bird had _______ (whatever disease). Marek's is not my strong suit because I have never had it in my flocks (Thank goodness!).

 

[Leslieb118]

Yes, from what I gather from the report they are presuming it was either Mareks or Lymphoid Leukosis. I looked up both and on one site, the symptoms fit PeeWee to a "T" for the Lymphoid Leukosis even down to the pale comb and wattles, except for the eye issue, which on the necropsy said was a secondary or opportunistic infection. From what I gather, part of the problem with diagnosis was the fact that he had time to decay a little from the time he died and the time I found him, and the fact that I packed him in dry ice instead of ice packs and he'd been frozen. I was warned when I called the lab that they wouldn't accept leaking packages and suggested ice packs. I didn't have time to freeze a bunch of ice packs, and the UPS store didn't sell them and suggested dry ice from Kroger next door. Lesson learned on that one! Whether it was Mareks or the other, who knows for sure, but either way it's bad news.

It would be hard for me to sacrifice any of my living chickens because they are showing no signs of anything whatsoever right now. But, on the other hand, I have 4-5 roosters that I need to get rid of, because I had a very unlucky hatch and only hatched one pullet. They are gorgeous birds, Welsummer, RIR, EE, and a funky mutt that's mixed with EE and Barred Rock and has feathered feet. I can't sell them now (and still have a conscience) nor would I give them away. I won't eat them either. But I can't keep them. Maybe the answer is clear and using them as test subjects is the only option I have left besides just culling them. Heartbreaking any way I look at it.

 

[seminolewind]

Adenium, Leslie, thanks. There's no cure and no test unless dead. And the necropsy can only tell by enlarged nerves or tumors.

I've had some with classic symptoms, or paralysis, or wasting. LL does not have paralysis.

Most adult birds get the wasting, most youngsters have paralysis, but this or any symptoms are not written in stone.

Now, I was really thrown off by what appeared to be youngsters (14 weeks) die from coccidiosis, and one with a massive swollen sinus and eyes shut. I have found out recently that birds can die from opportunistic bacteria because Mareks has ruined their immune system.

These recent ones , were all from the same vaccine group. All were rare Polish, I wonder if rare means that their immune systems are poor.

Most of my "no Symptom" birds were wasting over a period of weeks or months. They looked like they were eating, but were not. And when they died they were all bones no fat.

Cmv, I hope you never have it.

If a bird dies, you can wrap it and put in the fridge, send it in a styrfoam container over night to a state lab. The labs are cheap, the shipping is probably not. But it's the best way to know.

So sad.

 

[Leslieb118]

If a bird dies, you can wrap it and put in the fridge, send it in a styrfoam container over night to a state lab. The labs are cheap, the shipping is probably not. But it's the best way to know.

The state lab I sent him to here charges $20 for a bird 1 year old and younger, $30 for older. Surprisingly, it only cost me $12 to send him UPS ground, but I was guaranteed he'd get there the next day, just not by 10am. I think "Next Day" was $70. I went the cheaper route, lol.

One thing that Peewee didn't have either was paralysis. Just on the last day he was very unsteady and weak. That's why this Mareks possibility is so shocking to me. He was older than what is typical for Mareks, but the right age for LL. This just really stinks!

 

[leadwolf1]

I have found that not all Marek's cases fit the perfect Marek's profile. My reports came back the same, LL or Marek's. However, those were the birds that didn't go the 'right' way for Marek's. They were strong, healthy birds...dead the next. Since I have also had classic Marek's in my flock, I know that this is in fact, Marek's no LL. I guess I was almost glad since LL crosses through eggs and Marek's does not.

As for vaccinated birds. I purchased vaccinated pullets and then revaccinated them at 12 weeks. I have lost 3, with a 4th sick, to Marek's. Some with classic symptoms, others, not. This is out of 9 pullets. That is not good odds. Vaccinating only protects against the tumors, not paralysis or wasting. It also doesn't protect them if they are infected before their full immunity kicks in. I just read that you should keep them separated from the rest of the flock for 6 months. Through trial and error, I have concluded that the only way to keep birds is by hatching my own from my own birds that have been exposed to the Marek's virus and are carriers now. Apparently, passive immunity is passed from parents to babies. Then, vaccinating to guarantee active immunity. I hatched 17 chicks in December from my own eggs. I have only lost 1 to Marek's. They seem to be my healthiest birds. The problem with hatching my own is my roo to pullet ratio is way off....out of 17, I only ended up with 6 pullets. I won't kill the roos, I've watched too many of my others die, so, I have a huge bachelor pad to build. I have kept them in separate cages in my basement, yes, my basement all this time. The only way I knew to separate them from the flock. They free range all day and back in at night. I clean daily. But, I have saved them...so far, at least. To date, I have lost 35 + birds to Marek's. Marek's shows no mercy.

Aaaahhh...the age thing. I have also found that age is not a factor. I have lost birds as young as 12 weeks and as old as 16 months. Marek's, contrary to what all information would have you believe, has no age limits.

 

[leadwolf1]

My poultry vet informed me that the more 'rare' the breed/color is or the more genetic altering was involved in getting the colors/birds, the more likely Marek's would wipe them out. The constant striving for perfection has rendered their immune systems lacking.

Adenium, Leslie, thanks. There's no cure and no test unless dead. And the necropsy can only tell by enlarged nerves or tumors.

I've had some with classic symptoms, or paralysis, or wasting. LL does not have paralysis.

Most adult birds get the wasting, most youngsters have paralysis, but this or any symptoms are not written in stone.

Now, I was really thrown off by what appeared to be youngsters (14 weeks) die from coccidiosis, and one with a massive swollen sinus and eyes shut. I have found out recently that birds can die from opportunistic bacteria because Mareks has ruined their immune system.

These recent ones , were all from the same vaccine group. All were rare Polish, I wonder if rare means that their immune systems are poor.

Most of my "no Symptom" birds were wasting over a period of weeks or months. They looked like they were eating, but were not. And when they died they were all bones no fat.

Cmv, I hope you never have it.

If a bird dies, you can wrap it and put in the fridge, send it in a styrfoam container over night to a state lab. The labs are cheap, the shipping is probably not. But it's the best way to know.

So sad.

 

[Leslieb118]

Nothing about what happened to my roo was typical for what I've read about Mareks. That's why I'm kind of stunned right now. I'm not doubting at all that's what it was, it was just odd that more of the symptoms fit LL. I'm just really at a loss right now. I don't know what I should do. I know that I'm dealing with Mareks. I just don't want to have to sit back and watch my birds go down, one by one. Is there the possibility that they won't? I've been doing everything I can the last few days here to make sure they're comfortable. The temp yesterday and today was 105. They're miserable out there, but I've been keeping Sav A Chick in one of the waterers at all times. I don't want the stress of the heat to open the door for anything else. Man, this is a nightmare!

I only have 17 birds. I couldn't imagine losing 35 or more. I can't imagine losing the 17 I have. I pretty much gave up on hatching because like you, I had bad roo to pullet ratio. I ended up with one Leghorn pullet. I don't want a larger flock than I have now if they're going to be all roos. I really needed to get rid of quite a few, but it looks like I'll be re-arranging things around here so I can keep them without them driving the girls insane.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not doubting anyones opinion at all. I'm just in shock.

 

[Leslieb118]

My poultry vet informed me that the more 'rare' the breed/color is or the more genetic altering was involved in getting the colors/birds, the more likely Marek's would wipe them out. The constant striving for perfection has rendered their immune systems lacking.

It's interesting that you mention that, because that was one of the thoughts that was going through my head when he was sick. My son brought him home when he was a couple of days old. He was my first chick, and a frizzle. I kept wondering if there was something in that frizzle gene that made him susceptible to something, because I'd read about breeding frizzle to frizzle being bad. I was grasping at anything and everything to explain what could be going on with him, when no other chickens were sick.