Finally found the bloomin' cord to attach camera to computer. So, the promised photographs. Couldn't find OP, so I hope they see it! Black Java cockeral, age about 20wks. Very, very tall guy with a seriously long neck. Not much in the way of chest, but you can see the fat on his thighs, so he was fully grown. He was 4lbs 3oz. We culled him for lack of SOP - wrong body shape, not very full chested and way too leggy/necky for the breed. So, his chest is not representative of what we typically see. Think this is the 'long and lean' Java, not the kind we're breeding which is fuller chested and more blocky. CX pullet, age 12wks. She was 'average' size for the bunch - weighed in at 5lbs12oz. FR pullet, age 13wks. She was one of the larger girls, weighed in at 4lbs10oz. I hope this pictorial helps folks understand what the differences are. We've gotten 4 Black Java cockerals out of 5 eggs in the brooder right now. So if I end up with someone more to type, I'll post him. (Only need 1 guy...we'll see who gets to stay!). I've set all these birds on the same cutting board, with the same knife so everyone can do their comparisons. I tried to get the same 'angle' on the camera as well. Hope it gives you greater understanding! Nope, sorry, no 'this is what they look like roasted' photos, I've got two teenage sons - are you kidding me? Food comes out of the oven at 350 or 400 degrees and they're chowing into it like they've never seen food before! So, no 'after' photos from this camera! Unless you'd like to see their smiling faces - HA! They're teenagers, they instinctively know we'll use these gawky photos of them in their not-too-distant future...!