PIGEON`S EGGS ...

[paramount]

Yes, I'd think if you are seeing down and skin sticking to the shell, as well as smelling a bad stench, it is probably a sign of death at hatching. This would normally indicate that the membrane of the egg dried out while the bird was pipping the egg. Sometimes this is the result of a dry membrane (ie. not enough humidity, which can be a problem if you don't offer your birds a bath pan) or a result of a weak squab who could not complete the hatching process and became exhausted, resulting in the shell membrane drying out. If you look thoroughly around the nest, you will probably find the squab and the rest of the shell. Quite often, they begin to decompose very quickly and dry up in such a way that they are hidden somewhere in the nest. Obviously, if you have rats or other rodents, they will scavenge any dead squab or egg remnants the parents kick out of the nest.

On your second question, do you mean: "Can you breed the youngsters of the first clutch together with youngsters of the second clutch?", as in, breed them full brother and full sister?

While you would not want to do this too often, yes it can be done. It is the closest form of inbreeding and is sometimes used to "fix" the traits of the parent pair into a bloodline of birds. You will want to keep in mind that it will intensify not only the good characteristics of your old pair in another generation, but also their weaknesses. Breeding this close too many generations in a row can often lead to a whole loft full of genetic weaklings or a loft full of birds with low fertility.

Whatever is in the birds you start with, you are going to perpetuate.

 

[KiddoPH]

So what do you suggest? Do it or not? And when do you think I will start the breeding? Because I don't want them to grow weak.

 

[mightymax]

As paramount mentioned, breeding a full brother and full sister together is inbreeding. What wasn't mentioned, however, was line breeding. Line Breeding is a less intense form of inbreeding that involves breeding relatives other than the individual parents or brothers and sisters. Like with inbreeding, line breeding has the potential to develop birds of immense quality. It may take several more generations for your birds to get there, but the risks are fewer. Please understand that I AM NOT CONDONING EITHER form of breeding. I'm just saying that there are different options out there, with differing opinions on each, so just be sure to get the all the facts before you start a breeding project that could be detrimental to your birds' welfare. Thanks for reading this through and Good luck with your pigeons.

 

[paramount]

The basic difference between inbreeding and linebreeding is that true inbreeding accentuates the genetic impact of one pair of ancestors. For example, when you breed full siblings, you are concentrating the genes of both parents. FULL uncle/aunt bed to FULL niece/nephew also concentrates the impact of a common pair. Linebreeding, however, only concentrates the genetic impact off a single ancestor. So with half siblings, the common denominator is their common parent. Father/Daughter, Mother/Son, Grandparent/Grandchild, etc. concentrates the impact of the older bird in the mating.

Linebreeding is a form of inbreeding, but inbreeding is not necessarily linebreeding.

Inbreeding and Linebreeding are the ONLY ways that you can fix a certain set of characteristics into a group of animals, in that as the genepool becomes more concentrated, the chances for variability are lessened. What you put in, is what is going to come out. If you start with birds with a certain genetic feature (let's say a certain color, like Recessive Red), you are going to "fix" that characteristic into future generations. But inbreeding/linebreeding is also the fastest and surest way to expose any faults or weaknesses that might exist in the birds as well. For this reason, inbreeding and linebreeding is the breeding system of choice among the majority of top breeders. This is true whether it is pigeons, dogs, cattle or horses.

As my mentor used to say: "When you have something of value, you work it, work it, work it and work it some more".

Needless to say, one does not jump into this type of breeding without a purpose and a long term plan. One should also prepare for any consequences, because an element of unknown risk is involved.

In your situation, I think you will be fine breeding the offspring of the same parents together out of necessity. This is done many tens of thousands of times a year by people who keep pigeons, but who started with only a pair. Assuming the birds are not already closely related, one generation of inbreeding does not entail much risk. Your full sibling mating MIGHT produce one bird in ten that has some sort of weakness, but this is also possible of birds which are not related. The thing is, you just never know what you are going to get until you try it.

Try it. If it doesn't work, scrap it.

That said, on the next generation, you will probably want to look at getting some outside blood in there for an outcross.

 

[KiddoPH]

OMPigeons! So many risks, I'll just breed this pigeon to other pigeon, I mean not related to him/her, BTW, when can I put this squab to other cage? Or separate from his/her parents?

 

[silkiecuddles]

My pigeons had two eggs under them. They were only a couple of days old. When I checked this morning they were gone. They did that with their very first nest as well. Is that normal?

 

[silkiecuddles]

I have pigeon pair, who have two boys (from one nest) and two girls (from another). Can they mate or is that too close? Should I separate them?