Please stop HR 875 and S 425

Discussion in 'Random Ramblings' started by FutureChickenMan, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. FutureChickenMan

    FutureChickenMan Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 29, 2007
  2. I have WHAT in my yard?

    I have WHAT in my yard? Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 24, 2008
    Eggberg, PA
    OK I just skimmed them, tell me what the objection is so I understand better.
  3. spook

    spook Chillin' With My Peeps

    Ok, baby sit us common folk. I skimmed it also, and with all its double talk, I'd like to have a simpler opinionated conversation. Even if I don't agree in the long run (not the case here) I would like to read your opinion with the links to back it up.( Face it, I'm dumb when it comes to reading laws.)

    Traceability Laws, how is that any different then what we have now? Foods can be traced back to the responsible party. If you put good food out there to begin with, quality growing, processing, then what is there to be so different?
    Obviously with a lot of the recalls etc perhaps something does need to be done.

    These are opinions, uneducated and wish to be educated.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  4. PurpleChicken

    PurpleChicken Tolerated.....Mostly

    Apr 6, 2007
    Check out

    , most of these laws are being proposed disguised as things good
    for the public when in fact they are bills supported by the big ag companies
    that limit our rights and choices.

    875 is one that bothers me bad. It is a completely partisan (all Democrat)
    effort. Why is something that may be good for the country doesn't have one
    Republican support it, even Maine's own RINO Olympia? I have met
    Rosa Delauro several times. Trust me, she didn't lift a finger to write that
    bill. She's about as sharp as a baseball.

    The U.S. government is way too large already and needs to be stopped.
    It should focus on what it does best and what the forefathers intended
    it to. This isn't a Democrat/Republican thing, it's an American thing.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  5. conradpdx

    conradpdx Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jan 11, 2009
    On my couch
    (A) IN GENERAL- The term ‘food establishment’ means a slaughterhouse (except those regulated under the Federal Meat Inspection Act or the Poultry Products Inspection Act), factory, warehouse, or facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food or a facility that holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients.
    (B) EXCLUSIONS- For the purposes of registration, the term ‘food establishment’ does not include a food production facility as defined in paragraph (14), restaurant, other retail food establishment, nonprofit food establishment in which food is prepared for or served directly to the consumer, or fishing vessel (other than a fishing vessel engaged in processing, as that term is defined in section 123.3 of title 21, Code of Federal Regulations).
    (14) FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term ‘food production facility’ means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation.

    That underlined section is your garden or small backyard coop. This bill is about meat producers and importers. There is nothing to "fear" in this bill unless you really like sick cattle in the meat aisles and DDT on your fruit and veggies from the store.

    For a farm to use the term "Organic" on labels and advertising. They must already comply to government standards and inspections so this bill does not affect them.

    Ron Paul is against this bill, because it will impose daily inspections of meat processors. Needless to say that Mr. Pauls home state (Texas) has a large number ranchers and processors. He is simply looking out for those companies who don't want the stricter laws in place, under the disguise of "free market" capitalism. Let's not forget that Texas gets a lot of money from cheap products imported into the states from South and Central America. After many of those trucks carrying the produce drive through Texas to get to their final destination.

    I find it funny that Republicans are arguing that government is too big, since under the last administration the "government" expanded both in size, power, and spending that has ever been seen in our history. Likewise I don't see how a few animal tags is worse than phone taps, searches without warrants, unlawful combatants, and internet data mining.

    And now I apologize for getting political. But obviously the OP started this as a political debate, by linking to a political website as the topic. And not adding a comments to the links in the OP is kind of a cheap way to skirt the "rules" of the forum.​
  6. FutureChickenMan

    FutureChickenMan Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 29, 2007
    My apologies for assuming people can read. This post is not about a political debate. I could care less if you are a D, R, I, C or L type voter. This is about loss of liberty. Or maybe you don't think that farmers markets or the ability to sell your eggs/meat to people off the street is a big deal.

    Any time there are more regulations put in place making it more difficult for the little guy to compete against the corporations, it's a bad thing.

    Any time legislation is put in place to subject you / your property to "inspections", it's a bad thing.

    these bills are about control, who's got it and who doesn't.

    laymens terms
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  7. spook

    spook Chillin' With My Peeps

    Well, after I read these things, the layman's article, I do not see this as a political sided thing. I found it to be very important to us voters that cannot keep up with the who's who and whats what.
    Embarrassingly I must say that a lot of these things are above my head and I'm sure that I'm not the only one that has problems reading this crap that is in the process of sliding past us common folks.
    I would suggest that we do not put the politics, the anger and all that into this, its important to get this information out to the people of this forum.

    FutureChickenMan-I apologize to you for being smart, I can read, but like many people, I would assume this was something good as you did not give any inclination of what it was about. Teach, write your opinion of what you feel is right and wrong, then allow us to have the links to comprehend the rest.

    I am glad that this was brought up , now, it makes me want to read more of the layman's articles. Thank you.
    PC- amen, for instance, the government wants these laws to pass but going back to the crap about NAIS- this country can't get scammers, illegal aliens and driving under suspensions under control, how can they keep track of every chick, bunny, ant and bumble bee.
    Again, I'm grateful that you brought this up, explained it and now I'm up to send my comments in.
  8. chickory

    chickory Out Of The Brooder

    Feb 16, 2009
    blue ridge , georgia
    right on purple chicken. i guess the organic egg market will go underground if these jokers get their way. youre right it is big agribusiness and even darker motives: control of food = control of people.
  9. beak

    beak On vacation

    Dec 12, 2008
    Kiowa, Colorado
    I'm a Democrat and generally feel that regulation is a good thing. However after reading this bill it mixes the good with the bad. I can see inspecting slaughterhouses and food production facilities on a more regular basis. We like to sell excess eggs. I've always been concerned about a buyer getting sick from something I sold them and coming after me financially. Of course the thought of them dying is much worse. We have thought about selling processed turkeys but are worried about the same thing.

    As always if you want the good you have to take the bad. As long as they don't want to put restrictions on what eggs or meat I can consume I'm ok with it. I'll just stick with eating what I produce.

    I worry about chicken flu coming here and the Feds killing all the farm flocks. I'm sure it would just be a situation where they would pull into your yard and start killing and burning your chickens. That would suck.

    I guess we'll have to see what happens and how they enforce it. Maybe we need a National Bird Association.
  10. conradpdx

    conradpdx Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jan 11, 2009
    On my couch
    I do assume that most did read the article. However, did you all the other legislations referenced in the bill like the "Poultry Products Inspection Act"? All these bills are intertwined with other legislation. The problem is that people will read the new bill and have no idea of what is being amended.

    For example in the Poultry Products Inspection Act.

    No exemption under subparagraph (1)(C) or (D) or subparagraph (2) shall apply to any poultry producer or other person who, in the current calendar year -
    (A) slaughters or processes the products of more than 20,000 poultry; or
    (B) slaughters or processes the products of poultry at a facility used for slaughtering or processing of the products of poultry by any other poultry producer or person. Notwithstanding clause (B), the Secretary may grant such exemption to any poultry producer or other person if the Secretary determines, upon application of such poultry producer or other person, that granting such exemption will not impair effectuating the purposes of this chapter.

    So you're exempt if you raise and slaughter less than 20,000 birds a year, unless you also slaughter other peoples birds too. There is a list of other exemptions too, for home use, for religious reasons (kosher I assume).

    Now lets look at the Egg Products Inspection Act which is also mentioned:

    (a) Regulation for exemptions
    The Secretary may, by regulation and under such conditions and procedures as he may prescribe, exempt from specific provisions of this chapter -

    (1) the sale, transportation, possession, or use of eggs which contain no more restricted eggs than are allowed by the tolerance in the official standards of United States consumer grades for shell eggs;
    (2) the processing of egg products at any plant where the facilities and operating procedures meet such sanitary standards as may be prescribed by the Secretary, and where the eggs received or used in the manufacture of egg products contain no more restricted eggs than are allowed by the official standards of United States consumer grades for shell eggs, and the egg products processed at such plant;
    (3) the sale of eggs by any poultry producer from his own flocks directly to a household consumer exclusively for use by such consumer and members of his household and his nonpaying guests and employees, and the transportation, possession, and use of such eggs in accordance with this paragraph;
    (4) the processing of egg products by any poultry producer from eggs of his own flocks' production for sale of such products directly to a household consumer exclusively for use by such consumer and members of his household and his nonpaying guests and employees, and the egg products so processed when handled in accordance with this paragraph;
    (5) the sale of eggs by shell egg packers on his own premises directly to household consumers for use by such consumer and members of his household and his nonpaying guests and employees, and the transportation, possession, and use of such eggs in accordance with this paragraph;
    (6) for such period of time (not to exceed two years) during the initiation of operations under this chapter as the Secretary determines that it is impracticable to provide inspection, the processing of egg products at any class of plants and the egg products processed at such plants; and
    (7) the sale of eggs by any egg producer with an annual egg production from a flock of three thousand or less hens.

    This entire section is untouched in the new legislation (just as exemptions are untouched in the poultry processing act). So unless you got more than 3000 layers you've got nothing to worry about. If you selling from your flock to the end consumer you've got nothing to worry about.

    These bills aren't aimed at organic and small farms. They are amendments to other bills to keep greater track of the big agra businesses. These bills increase inspections on existing LARGE producers, increase standards on imported products, and increase the ability to track down pathogens from the large food production companies should an "outbreak" occur.

    And if read the bills these bills amend then you'd realize also that the bills being amended in many cases are the bills that set the standards/definitions for the ability to use such words as "free-range" and "organic" on labels and in advertising which legitimatized the whole thing.

    If anything these bills slightly increases the power of organic small farms and market farmers in that they have layers of red tape that they are exempt from. The big boys will be have a little more red tape (though if you read the req's for them, most of it stuff that they should have on file already) which although minimal, will increase their products production costs.

    So really who didn't read the bills? Both the right wing and left wing have been all over this, and it's ridiculous, because neither side has done any of the homework. They just look at what the fines are and like most people don't look at the definition section of a bill, don't look at exemptions. Hell, most people don't even read the bill, let alone the other bills attached to them. Most people get their information from attention deprived bloggers, media blow hards, or political hacks that jump to wild conclusions or worse just copy and spout what is handed to them. Which is a shame, considering in this day and age one can read a bill in it's entirety with a simple google search and make up their own mind


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