Plymouth Rock thread!

[Moonlight Piano]

Great looking chickens!!!

 

[cubakid]

I have Columbian bantams, and my friends do too. they have been hatching for 3 years and had good hatching with good color. but this year... one cockerel hatched out Barred Columbian. Like a Delaware. hes really got good patterning from being from a columbian pair.

 

[Wynette]

Punky & Yard Full - I have never claimed to be an expert, but I will say that I've spoken with several judges, and have memberships on several poultry forums, including a very large plymouth rock forum. That doens't mean squat, other than I have done a ton of research & reading.

Scott is exactly right - the feathering definitely needs to be tighter in my line - Punky, as I indicated, there are MANY things that need to be worked on with this variety and I'll be the first to say I have a LONG way to go. I'm looking at probably 4-5 years before these are close to standard. These silver pencileds have come back from virtually the brink of being completely obliterated. The stock that was out there when I began working with them was...well...crappy, to say the least. I got a few lines of them and culled heavily and will continue to do so, but again, I have a long way to go.

I have a judge working closely with me, along with a longtime PR breeder, and I have learned a ton from them and will hopefully continue to do so. Everyone I have spoken with tells me the same thing that Scott mentioned - work on type...type, type, type. Build the barn, then paint it. My barn has a good foundation, and this year, the frame of the barn is looking nice...maybe next year, the roof?

Certainly, critique away! I always welcome feedback, and please know that I DO KNOW my line has a long way to go. I tell anyone that wants to learn about interpreting the SOP and showing birds to get a variety that's not very popular, such as the silver penciled rocks...you'll learn SO much along the way, and there are tons of peeps that truly enjoy working with you - espeically those long-time breeders that don't want to see a variety go by the wayside. It's been interesting, educational, fun, frustrating...I love it!

I'm told the penciling in my line is good & crisp - a bit smutty on a few, but correct & crisp on others. My biggest worry going forward is losing the crisp penciling while I'm working on type. We'll see how that goes!

 

[punky rooster]

Scott: For some reason I knew you would say something like that. I also disagree that type is the #1 thing. Health, vigure and productivity is also very important. I guess I don't look at the bird the way you do, but I don't think that bird has an excellent underline. I have been talking with top breeders of Rocks (of whom my stock is from) and other breeds, that is where I get my information. And yes, I can see the loose feathering. I guess we don't see Plmouth Rocks the same way.

Wynette: I know you have work to do. Every one does - there is no such thing as a "perfect" bird. Good luck to you! You have a decent line to start with. I would just hate to see this beautiful variety of Plymouth Rocks go the wrong way, especially now there are people willing to work with them.

For the coloring: Choose your best colored males on the best typed & sized hens. Males should set color and females size and type.

Good luck,

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Morning all. As I said, I didn't want to start a disagreement but was just stating my opinion. I guiess that is the reason they make vanilla and chocolate. If we all agreed all the time life sure would be boring

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
Punky - you need to go back & re-read what I wrote. I did not say it was an "excellent" underline, I said "nice." We are looking at the shape here, not the feathering. Also, it goes without saying that health, vigor, and productivity are important. My comments were made in the vein of breeding to the SOP, not for health, vigor, and productivity which, in my opinion, are MORE important than breeding to the SOP. After all, without those three things, what do you have, really?

I don't think Scott was disagreeing with you, more just stating an opinion. This, to me, is what makes shows so darn exciting - the differences of opinion, the things folks choose to breed for, the judge's opinion & feedback!!

ETA: folks need to understand, if curious about the penciled rocks, that we are working with the best stock out there, which is not great. You simply cannot compare an SPPR to, say, a barred, or a white...it's apples & oranges at this point.

 

[tigercreek]

Wynette,
How do you feel about crossing SPPR to nicely formed barred rocks? I have been told that that really improves the lacing on blue rocks. Could it do the same for penciled? Would I lose the penciling untill the 2nd cross? ..stan

 

[cybercat]

Wynette nice birds.

I think the biggest problem with breeding goals is who you are both talking too. If one is talking with judges they have there own view of what a PR should look like. Those in the club have a couple different views depending on where they are showing or not. Everyone has an ideal image of the SOP. Some will have longer or wider backs some shorter. Some more curved underlines some not. Feathering on bottoms is a problem with many lines being too fluffy. But it is all something to work on. If we all had perfect chickens according to the SOP we would not be breeding so much since they would not need work on. After all our goal is to improve and bring back some rare colors.

On my side my chicks are growing well. I have another bunch of eggs in bator. This weekend my second rooster Beta will go in the pot for he is going for me too much. I guess being dominated by Alpha so much he has become over protective of flock since he is now in charge. No loss to me for he is not up to my SOP by a long shot. Luckily Alphas offspring are looking real good. The oldest two show real improvment in body so far being wider and more correct. But time will tell if they stay or not depending on other factors. To me I rather deall with a less perfect body chicken than one with bad temperment. Temperment is so much harder to fix sometimes. Body is easier with right combos but that does not work with temperment so much.

 

[Wynette]

Cyber - ditto! Which is why I try to have a few folks I confer with when making decisions and for feedback. I recently took individual pics of several of my SPPR hens and sent them along to two judges, a longtime rock breeder, and a longtime breeder of a few different breeds (but not PRs) just for an "aesthetic" viewpoint. Interestingly...none of them chose the same hen as their favorite of the group. Just goes to show that (at least for me) more opinions is better....often confusing, though! But - you need to know WHY you concluded to make your breeding choices (again, maybe that's me, too)

tiger, actually, that was one recommendation (breeding to a good quality BR) that I got back when I first began with this breed. I have been leery to do this, as my fear is tht I'll lose the good penciling I have now. I've been considering it, though, and may try next year. You'd have to breed the females back to the SP for a few generations to get the penciling back, and I'm uncertain whether it would ever get back to where it was. I do know of one person who is on her 2nd generation of breeding back from a BR to her SP...I am not at liberty to share pics, but suffice to say...it is a long road that she has, and I honestly don't know if it would take any time off the process of getting to SOP type or not. We shall see!

 

[snowbird]

To improve the Penciled Rock the best way would be to get some of the best Columbian Rock females available with good feathering and put a Penciled male over them. Only keep females from this mating as the males will be culls.Take some of the pullets and breed them back to a pure Penciled males and you will have vast improvement over the starting Penciled. I would recommend some of the Canadian Columbian Rocks for the cross. I have seen some nice Columbians from Canada.