Post Phoenix Pics Please

[nicalandia]

right, but mine are pied mottled which causes them to have some colored feathers as adults as well. Was just using them as an illustration. The chick which emerged from the crossing was black which is why Aubrey was stating that there are very few black phoenix here. Of course, I have black phoenix that were not from the import, so it is entirely possible that they could produce black. However, all we have established is that the birds are not recessive white, or at least one of them is not. Thus meaning dom white is in them and they are someone's creation and not your run of the mill white phoenix. My recessive whites and dom whites are also silver duckwing, black, barred, or any other combination under the white so long as on the dom white birds, they have no autosomal red pigment to show, any black and white pattern could be under the dom white. But since the chick was born black, we all assumed it was black or possibly birchen. But we never saw the chick to know by coloration. Blue and charcoal have also been known to be under the dom white since they are just black dilutes.

as you already know, Birchen will produce black chick down, just like Extended black chicks. that goes for silver birchen or gold based birchen. now silver birchen with dominant white will produce all white birds

 

[onagadori]

as you already know, Birchen will produce black chick down, just like Extended black chicks. that goes for silver birchen or gold based birchen. now silver birchen with dominant white will produce all white birds

Right, I have raised all three and am familiar with them. The discussion was about a pair of white phoenix producing black chicks, which is possible. I have bred my blue based rec white roo over a dom white over extended black hen (hetro) and got black and blue offspring from the cross. So I know it is indeed possible. We were just all amazed that this pair was said to produce black chicks from two white birds which we thought were in fact recessive white. But there is no possible way they are due to the chicks. In time hopefully more chicks will be born and we will know more. Dom white chicks won't be born with the characteristic dot in the back of the head, ( unless one of the birds is also carrying recessive white) so we will see what types of white are presented with the emergence on new chicks in future hatches.

 

[stevearino]

Wow, I didn't mean to spark such a huge investigation, though I must admit that I am fascinated by everyone's ideas! As I mentioned before, the poor chick died due to a complication that I didn't see at first. More will be coming soon as they are incubating as we speak.

To get an idea of what the chick really looked like, does anyone want me to post a picture of it? I don't have a picture of it alive, unfortunately, but I have one of it after it passed away. (I took it as evidence of the color for my own memory and records). I haven't wanted to post it since looking at dead chicks isn't a pleasant way to browse the forums, but I can post it this evening if people are interested in this "study".

 

[onagadori]

Wow, I didn't mean to spark such a huge investigation, though I must admit that I am fascinated by everyone's ideas!  As I mentioned before, the poor chick died due to a complication that I didn't see at first.  More will be coming soon as they are incubating as we speak.

To get an idea of what the chick really looked like, does anyone want me to post a picture of it? I don't have a picture of it alive, unfortunately, but I have one of it after it passed away. (I took it as evidence of the color for my own memory and records).  I haven't wanted to post it since looking at dead chicks isn't a pleasant way to browse the forums, but I can post it this evening if people are interested in this "study".

I wouldn't mind seeing it, or you could pm it to me. Thanks

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

you dont need a self black bird to create a self white bird using dominant white, introducing dominant white to the gene pool is not as complex as one may think

No it's very easy, just breed a dom white bird to anything you want and it will have it..well aware of that.
I have dominate white silver duckwing too, makes pure white,well on the males at least. The hens still retain the salmon breast. But it has to be a solid black base and or black and white based bird for it to be solid white on a dominate white bird. It wont cover reds and golds. I was referring to getting a solid black back out of a het dom white breeding.
if it's duckwing that it's covering up, you still wont get a solid black back out of it.

I know various combos will work for what you are saying, but I'm basing this off what is available in the breed.

I have goldnecks that are only 1 copy dom white in them and get about 50/50 goldneck and mille fleur back out of them. But the "black" that comes with them follows the pattern they carry as well.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

There is a good chance they are not full phoenix. I looked back at the pics. the roo is supposed to be two years old, right.. Unless he just molted, he isn't really what I would consider pure. So what if it had dom white leghorn in it? I have many dom whites here , but most are pied/mottled. This makes them appear like little Dalmatians when born. White with black spots all over....

could be, havent looked at the older pics. That would help explain things better if there was something else in them.

Think I showed you some pics last year too of a male I have that looks really similar to that smokey one you posted. Their chicks also hatch white w/black spots just like the chick pic Marvin posted

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Wow, I didn't mean to spark such a huge investigation, though I must admit that I am fascinated by everyone's ideas! As I mentioned before, the poor chick died due to a complication that I didn't see at first. More will be coming soon as they are incubating as we speak.

To get an idea of what the chick really looked like, does anyone want me to post a picture of it? I don't have a picture of it alive, unfortunately, but I have one of it after it passed away. (I took it as evidence of the color for my own memory and records). I haven't wanted to post it since looking at dead chicks isn't a pleasant way to browse the forums, but I can post it this evening if people are interested in this "study".

oh no biggie, we all love debating over stuff like this haha. Some many possibilities, I too dont mind seeing a dead chicks, not like I've never had one die here either haha. But am really curious to see what the exact down color looked like. also if you hatch off some more that come out like it later on, please post some of them.

If you have any bb reds or something similar, test bred your whites to them if you want to play around, the hatch results will help narrow genetics of your white down quick that way. There's so much stuff that can be hidden under whites, but when you cross to duckwings the results show what's in them pretty quick

 

[onagadori]

oh no biggie, we all love debating over stuff like this haha. Some many possibilities, I too dont mind seeing a dead chicks, not like I've never had one die here either haha. But am really curious to see what the exact down color looked like. also if you hatch off some more that come out like it later on, please post some of them.

If you have any bb reds or something similar, test bred your whites to them if you want to play around, the hatch results will help narrow genetics of your white down quick that way. There's so much stuff that can be hidden under whites, but when you cross to duckwings the results show what's in them pretty quick

ok, it's settled them, can we see those pics?

 

[stevearino]

oh no biggie, we all love debating over stuff like this haha. Some many possibilities, I too dont mind seeing a dead chicks, not like I've never had one die here either haha. But am really curious to see what the exact down color looked like. also if you hatch off some more that come out like it later on, please post some of them.

If you have any bb reds or something similar, test bred your whites to them if you want to play around, the hatch results will help narrow genetics of your white down quick that way. There's so much stuff that can be hidden under whites, but when you cross to duckwings the results show what's in them pretty quick

I actually only have the two phoenix, my hen and rooster. If I had other varieties, I would love to experiment. As it is, this pair is all I have to start with.

Here is a pic to remind everyone of the parents:




Again, I don't know whether the red/yellow in their feathers is from the sun or whether it is in their genes. Also, the rooster is a bit beat up here. It was when I first got him. He is looking a little better now.

And here is the chick (may it rest in peace ) that they produced:

 

[onagadori]

I actually only have the two phoenix, my hen and rooster. If I had other varieties, I would love to experiment. As it is, this pair is all I have to start with. Here is a pic to remind everyone of the parents: Again, I don't know whether the red/yellow in their feathers is from the sun or whether it is in their genes. Also, the rooster is a bit beat up here. It was when I first got him. He is looking a little better now. And here is the chick (may it rest in peace ) that they produced:

Looks birchen to me.