prayer warriors (following Jesus Christ, everyone welcome)

[ocap]

I am getting very tired of the reporters that are suppose to be unbiased changing the rules of their making on a daily basis to fit their political agenda.

Last year reporters said evolution was truth and no longer a theory. A week later a mayor in West Virginia agrees with the reporter and says that Michelle Obama is related to the ape, the mayor is ridiculed by the press and forced to resign.

Last month, "bullying" of someone weaker was considered by the press to be wrong. This week President Trump's 10 year old son is the target of the bullying press.

Yesterday the violent demonstrators were practicing terrorism, enough terrorism to be arrested


ter·ror·ism
[ˈterəˌrizəm]

NOUN

1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

bul·ly1
[ˈbo͝olē]

NOUN

1. a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.
   synonyms: persecutor · oppressor · tyrant · tormentor · intimidator · tough guy ·
   [more]
   thug · ruffian · strong-arm · cyberbully

VERB

1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants:
   
   
   xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   
   
   now I will go back to the topic of the thread

 

[PeepersMama]

Genuine question. Reading the discussion about water etc, I don't understand why some people read a non scientific document and try to derive scientific meaning from it? The creation story doesn't read as a literal scientific text to me, which doesn't remove it's ultimate meaning which is that God created the universe.

Evolution isn't any more science than the Bible. It is a theory that cannot be proved right. The scientific method requires observation in order for something to be proven right or wrong, and evolution can't be observed. That pretty much debunks it as "science" in my book.
A literal scientific text? Keep in mind that no matter how hard a man tries, he can't be perfect. There are mistakes in every science book out there; creation based or otherwise. The Bible is perfect. Every word in it is true.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

, a lot of good verses I'm reading on here tonight!

Thank you for your prayers; fortunately I didn't fall apart last Saturday as told there was a lice scare School, so my son's friend brought him home confirming lice nits and a few hours later admitted him to the ER room for appendicitis and was scheduling him for surgery the following day as we were being the admitted to the hospital. In the meantime I had to notify the camp to check my daughter's head out, who sick with laryngitis. On Monday afternoon my son was discharged from the hospital & my daughter came home sick and I was thankful, to have made it through that. They had delayed the surgery for my son on Sunday because I didn't have custody papers on file. Even with a couple church friends for proof they we're also going to hold him and not release him to me. Fortunately I called the on-call pediatrician's office who had given a copy to and they forwarded it to the surgeon. Thank the Lord for giving me a brain and others that were willing to help!
I had to work from home Tuesday through Friday. I'm amazed we made it through this week,we must be on the wings of his angels!?!

Wow hon! I cry tears for you right now.

Sounds like a very challenging week.

And I'm guessing it isn't completely over. Recovering from lice and other illnesses..... hang in there!

And Father God, thank you for making your face to shine upon this young lady and her children! In Jesus name I pray.

 

[MiddleWoods]

Well, to me, its for reproof, correction, teaching. I have small children that already come home from school with evolution and billion year old dino bones for me to have to explain. That, and its cool to see how God created everything so perfectly for us. His amazing creation, His glory radiates out of everything that comes from Him.


Because it's overwhelmingly amazing and ironic at the same time; that we will NEVER be able to even come close to being anything as amazingly omnipotent as God

I don't disagree about being amazingly omnipotent but that doesn't really answer my question.

the answer in the form of a question

Why do scientists approach science with bad philosophy? The atheist scientist (not the Christian scientist) wants a particular answer and approaches an experiment with a result that he can not or will not accept because of his religious choice. That person will also begin to read the Bible (try Romans chapter 1) and get information that is not accepted, he changes the Bible or it's meaning to fit his religious choice. I am attempting to read a book that has chapters written by scientists that are Christians and am realizing that the authors are a lot smarter than me and still accept Jesus death as Truth and His sacrifice was for them.

I don't understand why some people read a non scientific document and try to derive scientific meaning from it?

They want an excuse when they get to heaven.
Genesis 3 NASB
12 The man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.”

Adam blames God for his sin, Scientists blame God for a non-scientific document.

Your comment about scientists only seeking an answer they want does not appear to be true in the general case and also doesn't answer my question. Scientists will formulate a hypothesis which they can then test with an experiment. A scientific theory is different and the difference is often misunderstood by Christians, Theories are well tested and substantiated. Regardless none of this deals with my question about why a document that was not written with any intention of being a hypothesis or forming a theory is being read as one.

Evolution isn't any more science than the Bible. It is a theory that cannot be proved right. The scientific method requires observation in order for something to be proven right or wrong, and evolution can't be observed. That pretty much debunks it as "science" in my book.
A literal scientific text? Keep in mind that no matter how hard a man tries, he can't be perfect. There are mistakes in every science book out there; creation based or otherwise. The Bible is perfect. Every word in it is true.

I think you misunderstand the use of the word theory. Scientific theories are testable and well substantiated. Even where there is no doubt or question over their correctness, they are still called a theory because that is the scientific terminology. It is not the same thing as the use of "theory" in common vernacular. While I was mostly talking about the order of creation (water etc) that was being discussed, evolution has indeed been observed - I would prefer if you would stick to truths here. The continued rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria is one of many examples of natural selection causing evolution. I don't really want to get into a discussion about evolution, just want to stick to the basics of the order in which light, land water, etc was created and why it is necessary to believe it to be strictly the correct order.

The bible can be perfectly true without needing to be scientifically accurate as it isn't intended to be accurate in that way. Just because I don't read the bible as a scientific document doesn't mean I don't think it is truthful.

 

[PeepersMama]

I don't disagree about being amazingly omnipotent but that doesn't really answer my question.


Your comment about scientists only seeking an answer they want does not appear to be true in the general case and also doesn't answer my question. Scientists will formulate a hypothesis which they can then test with an experiment. A scientific theory is different and the difference is often misunderstood by Christians, Theories are well tested and substantiated. Regardless none of this deals with my question about why a document that was not written with any intention of being a hypothesis or forming a theory is being read as one.


I think you misunderstand the use of the word theory. Scientific theories are testable and well substantiated. Even where there is no doubt or question over their correctness, they are still called a theory because that is the scientific terminology. It is not the same thing as the use of "theory" in common vernacular. While I was mostly talking about the order of creation (water etc) that was being discussed, evolution has indeed been observed - I would prefer if you would stick to truths here. The continued rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria is one of many examples of natural selection causing evolution. I don't really want to get into a discussion about evolution, just want to stick to the basics of the order in which light, land water, etc was created and why it is necessary to believe it to be strictly the correct order.

The bible can be perfectly true without needing to be scientifically accurate as it isn't intended to be accurate in that way. Just because I don't read the bible as a scientific document doesn't mean I don't think it is truthful.

The resistant bacteria isn't evolving, it is adapting. It will never become something more than bacteria. A more "powerful" bacteria, yes, but it can't evolve into, say, a cat, or even a worm.

I do agree with you that that theories can certainly be tested. I believe that there are tectonic plates moving around beneath the earth's crust, and I think that Pangea was real, but Genesis 1:1 does not say, "In the beginning, some dust and molecules mixed togther and exploded, creating life, and the universe as we know it." It says "God created the heavens and the earth! He made the earth, light, water, plants, dirt, animals, and people, and on top of that he put everything in such perfect position so that we can survive on earth. I don't think that the earth is where it is by chance.

Wait a second, do you believe the spiritual truth of the Bible, but not that God created the world? Genuine question here.

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote:

A literal scientific text? Keep in mind that no matter how hard a man tries, he can't be perfect. There are mistakes in every science book out there; creation based or otherwise. The Bible is perfect. Every word in it is true.

I think you misunderstand the use of the word theory. Scientific theories are testable and well substantiated. Even where there is no doubt or question over their correctness, they are still called a theory because that is the scientific terminology. It is not the same thing as the use of "theory" in common vernacular. While I was mostly talking about the order of creation (water etc) that was being discussed, evolution has indeed been observed - I would prefer if you would stick to truths here. The continued rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria is one of many examples of natural selection causing evolution. I don't really want to get into a discussion about evolution, just want to stick to the basics of the order in which light, land water, etc was created and why it is necessary to believe it to be strictly the correct order.

The bible can be perfectly true without needing to be scientifically accurate as it isn't intended to be accurate in that way. Just because I don't read the bible as a scientific document doesn't mean I don't think it is truthful.
While you state that you don't want to discuss evolution, you have indeed brought it up and have stated it as a truth. Let me speak to the theory of evolution. Natural selection... yes that does exist. As pointed out by your example of natural selection of bacteria to become increasingly resistant to antibiotics. That has been observed and documented. But, evolution has never been observed.

Evolution | Definition of Evolution by Merriam-Webster

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evolution

4a : descent with modification from preexisting species : cumulative inherited change in a population of organisms through time leading to the appearance of new forms : the process by which new species or populations of living things develop from preexisting forms through successive generations

According to this theory, simple organisms evolved over time to become more complex organisms. Giving rise to new species. Is that not the bottom line of the theory of evolution? There has been no documented evidence of a new species arising from an older and simpler species. There have been no missing links found. Indeed when cross species breeding occurs, the offspring is often sterile, and unable to breed to carry on the line. When mutations have been documented, they almost always result in a negative consequence, often rendering the organism incapable of living as intended, and sometimes incapable of living at all.

I will ascertain that the Bible is truthful, and the scientific information it contains is accurate. To state any less is calling God, the creator of the universe a liar, or telling him He doesn't know what He's talking about.

Because I don't want to have this thread drawn into further argument regarding the truth of scripture and creation as described by God, I'll invite you to continue this discussion in PM. Otherwise, let's put this topic to rest, and move on to more productive conversation.

 

[shortgrass]

Lol everyone beat me to it...I figured maybe we need to look at definitions of words before throwing them around in ignorance.... First, what is a hypothesis..... 1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action 2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences 3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement Next, theory... 1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another 2 : abstract thought : speculation 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art 4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory 5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena 6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject Now, truth... a archaic : fidelity, constancy b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance 2 a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true c : the body of true statements and propositions 3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : true 2 c : fidelity to an original or to a standard 4 capitalized, Christian Science : god

 

[ocap]

Quote:
Chapter 10 of this book answers your question, the chapter is titled "Why I believe the Bible is Scientifically Reliable"

 

[ocap]

The book in the post above is not where 99.9% of people should begin. Providentially I just finished Chapter 10. That book is the latest in a 17 year study of apologetics.

 

[shortgrass]

This seems to fit this discussion...


John 3:9-21

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.