Raising and Growing Our Organic and Not- So-Organic Foods

[Arielle2]

from the 3 hr lecture video
eco system of the orchard.

siberian tree shrub ?? nitrogen fixer; not sure I heard all the words right

Add or develop mirhorizal hyphe to pull nutrients ( minerals) from very deeep up to where the tree roots can use it; roots reach far wider than the canopy;

 

[Arielle2]

conti'd
maple trees and poplar trees have the same microrhyzie that fruit trees need.
biololgiy and ratios not commercial application of NPK, soil testing helps id more minerals, pH is good to test too.

Shoot growth tells. should be 16-18 inches. says N enough. if not add compost. if excessive too much nitrates so pears much nore likely to get fireblight.

cut up prunings to drop under canopy. Develop fungi under canopy. In aisle area is bacteria based. Hugelkulture= bury woodsy material into the garden area. moldy hay.

Black rot is spores in a rotting material. ?????? not clear

lay flat is key, not necessarily chip. FUngi. golden rod, leaves raspberries = fungle food. what is found at edge of the forest. breaks down fast when flat to ground. Must decay quickly to prevent becoming viral vector.

open trees, then what to do with bigger branche 2 1/2 inch stuff is cut into 1-2 foot flat to ground . chip larger material into a 4-6 inch pile, or add hard wood chips or powerline chipping, pile for several years to decay and build fungii decay.

fungle duff zone is under the drip line. In ailse is bacterial and the material is better served under the trees. rather than the aisle.

build piles with hay on the brush piles or some soils

 

[Arielle2]

cont'd
(spelling by sound when I dont know spelling--BEWARE lol)

under the tree add fatty acids and woodsy matter to build fungi , neem is a fatty acid
echinachia
milkweed
above for benefiials

taproots
comphrey 6-8 ft pulls up minerals to root level
chicory
roesemanry
thyme
dandilion
sweet silicy goes to seed, edible licorice like, sythe it down and new flush of growth and flowers again
more diversity the better
mint
chives
nettles
chrolis ???

comphrey 4- 5 spots at 6 feet out from full size tree. chop down. Like border edge and grows well so needs mowing down.

after petal fall, mow and pull material out to drip line; the flush of feeder roots and increase in fungi, set up tree for spring production is NOW.

hay is cut at petal fall and great for fungi so mows at leave drop to shock the grasses and allw feeder roots to grow.

soluable lignans is the food for fungi

What happens at the forest edge is the go to theme.

pulling stumpsis big disturbance and biology is distrurbed.

use powder or gel of 10-12 species a couple will thrive in the area, and use the roots to thrive. so this is a method to rebuild.

great resource is bags of leaves from neighbor yards

 

[Arielle2]

cont's
keeep 4 foot circle of no competition for 4 ish yearsl
grasses need mowing every month--grass gets denser, with very dense roots, so fruit trees must dive deeper, not all that they need to fight diseases.
Mow at leave drop and again later to reduce source of disease

give up a lot of activites to manage the fruit trees

coate of lime wil supress apple scab in fall where it like to grow in the warmth of octoberl need to chop up leaves and spread lime.

sulfur is not used in this system-- refered to as a commercial spray

in wet years more over whelming= need two sprays of sulfur to control 10-14 days warm then a rain, the spores will be released so sulfur maybe needed.

reduce the opportunity for that bacteria to get going =tea, yeastspray etc, colonize flower before bacteria arrives keeps out that bad bacterias

no trees are immune, some are more resistant than others. work with what you have.

tenacity. stick with it, and learn and focus on getting it right.

 

[Arielle2]

this is the organic spray schedule for peaches.

Sure doesnt look like Michaels work
http://extension.wsu.edu/chelan-dou...es/43/2014/05/organic_spray_home_peaches1.pdf

 

[Arielle2]

Need to protect fruit trees from deer here. Running several lines of baling twine ( TSC) with flagging and metal disposable pie plates ( repurposing). My son used this method at his community garden and the design worked well. Fingers crossed.

Found a tiny lilac. Found a large patch of very short wild blueberries. Im sure the ticks found me.

 

[Arielle2]

For purchase peach program

https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/summaries/summary.php?pub=6

 

[Arielle2]

BACK TO BROWN ROT
Scott F Smith(6B/7A MD) responding to brown rot questions....
Frank, thats an interesting article I had not seen, thanks for the link. There is no silver bullet for preventing brown rot organically, if you look at that study for example it reduces infection by something like half. I have found sulphur to be the best option overall, and Serenade and Saf-T-Side oil also provide some help. I think its good to mix it up and also combine where possible. I usually do Serenade and Saf-T-Side together. Sulphur is not compatible with oil so I do that on its own. It sounds like calcium would also be a good thing to throw into the tank.

Along with the sprays a very open pruning regimen plus making sure the stone fruit trees are planted in full sun is important. Plus gently pick off any fruits that are rotting to keep the spore count down.

This year I am sort of giving up and using a propiconazole spray or two. I don't have the time to do all the organic brown rot sprays, you need to keep it up all summer.
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persianmd2orchard


I've been meaning to post this for a while. I heard while visiting EL a few months ago that they're having nice but very prelim results using Regalia (OMRI) for brown rot. I believe it stimulates the plant's natural immune defenses against disease.

So far I'm not having brown rot issues (young trees, resistant varieties, early picking off the rare brown rotted fruit) but I will give Regalia a try when it becomes an issue in a couple seasons. The data on it seem a bit mixed (UC Davis data vs the company's own data?) but either way I think it is worth considering unless someone already has had poor results with it?

$99 for 1 gallon preorder at GrowOrganic. Mix @ 3 Tbs/gal.

Here is a link that might be useful: Regalia company site

update---nevermind on regalia, update is performance poor this season although it was exceptionally wet

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you need some foliar calcium. One source is below, I just bought some and I will be using it. This is a large quantity, sometimes its hard to find backyard quantities of these chemicals.

The only positive studies I have found on Regalia are the company ones so I'm a bit hesitant to spring for that. Studies are important because each year varies a huge amount in terms of how much rot there is and you need some controls side by side to see how its doing. Either that or try it yourself with your own control..

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: 7 Springs foliar calcium
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I agree with Scott that the article about calcium sprays is very interesting. At some sites brown rot is a kind of a borderline problem with many stone fruits so this might be a breakthrough. The calcium could probably be applied with the two post petal fall sprays. I may start putting some in the tank.

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I have horrible problems with Brown rot on my Necs and Peaches. Monterey Fungi fighter works very well but is not organic. Without it, I lose 60-80% of my fruit.
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Tilt or Bumper which are propiconizole based fungicides are listed for stone fruit and a qt. would be very reasonable for the home orchard. I use it commercially but after seeing it has brown rot on it's label it will be sprayed on my fruit trees. My green gage plums and flat peaches are 95% lost to brown rot every year.
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I don't spray anything for brown rot. I've found that a regimen of
proper orchard hygiene eliminates brown rot for me. Last year, I had a lot of brown rot on my apples, because i didn't properly maintain my orchard. This year, I have, and I've had VERY minimal brown rot.

another poster---
I tried the clean-up method and it didn't work for me. On apples I can believe it could help but on rot prone stone fruits its much harder.

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gator_rider2(z8 Ga.)
When I grew watermelon commercial I had problem with blossom end rot so calcium after bloom. Then grew tomatoes field pick your own by 5 gallon bucket blossom end rot sprayed at 100% bloom. Later I grew Peaches they rot on end I called blossom end rot so sprayed all with calcium that was end of my blossom end rot.
When came on line in 2001 Peach blossom end rot was called Brown Rot. On peaches I spray at complete pedal fall and 2 spray after 7 days each. On acre tomatoes it takes one quart per spray of liquid calcium I buy liquid form calcium in 2 1/2 gallon jug about ever 5 years keep calcium from freezing important and settling I keep in closet shakeup twice year plus before use in spring seem to work. I mix quart in 25 gallon sprayer thats more than need now but spray all out flower grass and shade trees they get left overs.

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rayrose(8)
The orchard hygiene has worked for me on all my stone fruits
and apples and pears.
You can achieve the same results with blossom end rot, without having to spray, by feeding calcium nitrate to your fruit trees and melons. I did it this year for the first time, and have had no blossom end rot at all.

I grow peaches, plums, nectarines, apples, pears, figs, watermelons, cantaloupe, blueberries, and tomatoes. The only thing that got blossom end rot with the calcium nitrate was the tomatoes, but I fixed that with 1/2 gallon of milk, which I fed to my 5 plants. Works every time. We had a very wet and cold spring, which created a lot of pollination problems. Poor bees didn't know whether to come or go. I fed all of my trees with calcium nitrate (15.5-0-0) in march and will do it again in august. No other fertilizer. Also tilled it into my melon patches in march and side dressed with it, when the plants started to run. Did the same thing with the tomatoes, but obviously tomatoes are calcium pigs, so hence the milk.
One thing that has helped with the melons, is that I have lots of bees, and tons of blooms, and haven't seen one poorly pollinated melon yet. I have 2 melon patches with 140 hills of melons and 16 hills of cantaloupe.

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alan haigh
My soil always has lots of calcium (and K) as I spread firewood ash to keep the pH near 7. Doesn't seem to help my brown rot but maybe the spray would. High calcium in soil does not at all assure it in the fruit, as I understand it.

--------------------------------

This made me remember that I have some calcium chloride, its added to cider to keeve it. I bought it from some mushrooming store, see link below. Mushroom growers use it to dry out mushrooms. This stuff is in larger quantity than your little canister, Frank.

Some website I found says 3-4 lbs per 100 gallons, so do the math - half an ounce or so by weight per gallon.

I wished I had thought of this, the calcium stuff I bought was really expensive and I have a couple pounds of the stuff below in my basement.

I wonder what commercial growers use, pure CaCl2 or some other formulation.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Calcium Chloride pellets

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franktank232(z5 WI)
My little container is 5.5 oz...so that should cover me for awhile. I won't need much..i'm going to cover the plums tonite.

I know i've seen it used as road salt..just would imagine it would be chunks of it ...would need to crush it somehow or dissolve it in water for awhile?

Corrosive on cars? just what we need up here...i've seen 5 year old cars with rust.

Like Save July 10, 2013 at 9:20AM
link

I would think a few sprays of sulfur (4?) and 6? sprays of calcium chloride would really knock back the rot... I'm not looking for 100% coverage, but it would be nice to get my pluots through so i can actually eat some ripe fruit.

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steve333_gw(5a)
Another organic possibility may be increasing Si levels in the trees. Study have shown that Si carbonate applied to row crops worked about as well or better than fungicides for many crops (melons, squash etc). It may work on fruit trees as well.

It has been quite a while since I read that article, so you'd have to do some research to find the quantities they were applying. But it seems like a real possibility and probably worth a try if you can find a source of Si.

Like Save July 13, 2013 at 5:42PM
link

I'm going to spray the plums and apples...it looks like many light sprays is better then heavy sprays...

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windfall_rob(vt4)
I think this was the link I mentioned previously ...UNiversity of Wa not michigna

Here is a link that might be useful: nutrient sprays for fruit

 

[Arielle2]

looking at your plants, evalate their health
charted data copied oddly but I think still understandable.
Nutrient problem solver

Well-established organic gardens have few nutritional problems but if they occur, here’s what to do.

Nutrient

Signs of deficiency

Solutions in brief.

Nitrogen (N)
Major nutrient

Yellowing, starting with oldest leaves. Leaf drop. Stunted growth. Excess flowers and fruit while still young.

Pelletised organic fertilisers, aged chook manure, fish emulsion.

Phosphorous (P)
Major nutrient

Dark green or even blue-purple older leaves, sometime red/yellow margins. Burnt tips.

Add bone meal, blood and bone, fish emulsion, aged chicken manure.

Potassium (K)
Major nutrient

Yellow purple hues in older leaves, brown edges, spots, scorching. Pale flowers, few fruit.

Flower and fruit organic fertilisers, sulphate of potash, seaweed extract, molasses. Wood ash, aged poultry manure.

Calcium (Ca)
Major nutrient

Tip hooking of leaves then darkening of older leaves. Blossom end rot, bitter pit, stunted celery, asparagus.

Lime, especially liquid lime. Dolomite, blood and bone. Well rotted cow and sheep manure.

Magnesium (Mg)
Major nutrient

Yellowing between leaf veins, reddish brown tints at edges, but leaf base stays green.
Pale blotchy older leaves.

Epsom salts as foliar spray. Dolomite or Epsom salts to soil.

Sulphur (S)
Major nutrient

Youngest leaves yellow with rolled edges,
then whole plant yellows.

Add gypsum or sulphur powder. Also seaweed extract.

Boron (B)
Micro nutrient

Youngest leaves have yellow margins,
are distorted and narrow. Dead growing tips, hollow fruit, brown patches.

Add borax powder. Also seaweed extract and aged manure or trace element mix.

Copper (Cu)
Micro nutrient

Distorted, yellow growth tips and young leaves. Fewer flowers.

Add copper sulphate (bluestone). Seaweed extract, aged manure or trace element mix.

Iron (Fe)
Micro nutrient

Yellowing between dark veins on young leaves. Eventually completely white.

Add organic iron chelates, seaweed emulsion or meal or trace element mix.

Manganese (Mn)
Micro nutrient

Yellowing between veins on young and older leaves. Veins pale green rather than dark green.

Add manganese sulphate or chelate. Seaweed extract or trace element mix.

Molybdenum (Mo)
Micro nutrient

Mottling, cupping and distortion of old leaves and stems. Whiptail in cauliflower.

Add Sodium molybdate in tiny amounts as found in trace element mix. Add lime to increase pH if soil too acid, decrease alkalinity if too alkaline.

Zinc (Zn)
Micro nutrient

Young leaves small and bunched, mottled yellow, white markings between veins.

Add zinc sulphate. Use zinc nails. Seaweed emulsion and aged manure or trace element mix.

 

[Arielle2]

THis is just frustrating---no real answer to prevention or treatment of brown rot on stone fruit

Brown rot
The most frustrating problem with all stonefruit is brown rot, a fungal disease that causes plums, peaches, apricots and other stonefruit to rot as they begin to ripen. The disease really strikes in late winter, first causing blossoms to wither, turn almost black and remain clinging. The disease organisms remain dormant until the fruit begins to mature in summer. Small blobs of toffee-like gum oozing from twiggy growth indicate sources of infection. Spores emerge to infect fruit as ripening approaches, first seen as brown dots that rapidly expand, turning entire fruit clusters rotten.

Brown rot overwinters in dry, shrunken, clinging mummified fruit, gum-oozing branches and diseased fruit lying beneath trees. Control is by hygiene, which means constantly collecting all fallen fruit, cutting out mummies, plus the growth to which they are attached. Pruning out all infected material at any time of the year and carefully raking up and removing all pruning debris is also necessary.