Random idea breeding for predator resistance.

[centrarchid]

ah

@Coopscraft I have some experience with what you are trying and have similar thoughts on simply making free-range rearing more practical. All I am trying to do is make so chickens are a little quicker at roosting up and quick enough to by time so my other protective measures can come into play. I have infused American Games into a line of American Dominiques to create foundation of what I am calling Missouri Dominiques. I can get most of flight capacity in place but have an issue with making the chicken culture line up to take advantage of the improved physical abilities of my creation. The birds need to run and fly to safe locations otherwise the flight capacity only delays the inevitable. This can even be a problem with my pure games. I am also meeting the situation half way by stepping up how I defend the birds.

 

[Helloworld]

I wouldn’t clip wings. I have Crevécours and they fly like birds not chickens but still not predator proof.

 

[centrarchid]

Resistance rather than proof.

 

[Coopscraft]

The reason I thought of Sumatra chickens is because they are supposedly one of the closest domesticated breeds to the wild red jungle fowl. This makes me wonder if they have the instinct to fly to an improved position or at least cover enough ground in one hop to evade some predators. A wolf, not a chance, but something with a more limited range of attack possibly. It seems like my leghorns don’t evade by more than fifty feet. Most of that is running or near the ground. Even a beagle could catch one easily I think. But if they lifted off and went thirty feet up into the nearest tree, most predators, not all, would weigh the ease of capture vs moving on to more convenient prey. A canid wouldn’t wouldn’t be the least deterred.

 

[centrarchid]

The reason I thought of Sumatra chickens is because they are supposedly one of the closest domesticated breeds to the wild red jungle fowl. This makes me wonder if they have the instinct to fly to an improved position or at least cover enough ground in one hop to evade some predators. A wolf, not a chance, but something with a more limited range of attack possibly. It seems like my leghorns don’t evade by more than fifty feet. Most of that is running or near the ground. Even a beagle could catch one easily I think. But if they lifted off and went thirty feet up into the nearest tree, most predators, not all, would weigh the ease of capture vs moving on to more convenient prey. A canid wouldn’t wouldn’t be the least deterred.

You logic is sound from my perspective. I want them just 10 feet up in tree or on roof of a small building where they can cackle to call me or dogs over to help out. If hawk, then I would like more speed getting to cover I manage into landscape used for chickens to free range. The chickens need the refuges that most areas lack. The chickens need to make proper response. Must do not respond properly without prior experience.

 

[Folly's place]

I've seen clear differences is responses to threats in my flock over the years, and it's a combination of how the individual reacts to threat, and luck, IMO.
This spring when one of my dogs got out and killed many of my birds (awful!!!) there were survivors; the few who liked to spend time at and in the barn, and who hid or flew into the rafters, and the birds who flew into trees.
Birds who panic and crouch are going to die, unless they are actually hidden first. Birds running can't outrun most dogs, or foxes, or any 'real' canine.
Some of my bantam EES, Belgian d'Uccles, and standard white Chanteclers lived. Better flyers, all of them.
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

I lost all the Wyandottes, French Marans, Sussex, four of six roosters, and some of the breeds who lived. Horrible day!
My current dogs are rescues from bad situations, and I've been lazy and not even tried to 'chicken proof' either of them. When my fence failed, one of the dogs dug under and had a great day. I'm not over it yet...
Mary

 

[Coopscraft]

I lost all the Wyandottes, French Marans, Sussex, four of six roosters, and some of the breeds who lived. Horrible day!
My current dogs are rescues from bad situations, and I've been lazy and not even tried to 'chicken proof' either of them. When my fence failed, one of the dogs dug under and had a great day. I'm not over it yet...
Mary

That’s terrible. Sounds like in your experience chickens that fly and know where to fly to have better chances against a terrestrial predator. Coincidentally,or perhaps based on their natural habitat, trees give an escape route and some shelter from raptors.

 

[MROO]

I can build a chicken fort. I was thinking a breed that would be aimed at a “free range” market.

Look into Egyptian Fayoumi - strictly free-range birds, and striking to look at, to boot!
And there are always guineas. You can't get much more predator savvy than those. Many people add them to their mixed flocks for just that reason.

 

[centrarchid]

Even with the most escape capable, you can improve escape rate by doing a little conditioning where the birds are challenged with a controlled potential threat. When a kid I had groups of game chickens in some very wild locations like around tree lined fence rows and outbuildings that were largely idle. Many times I could not catch the birds off the roost so used a trained dog that worked with me to run them down. Dog would flush birds with many flying to dog safe locations. Those that did not she ran down directly and kept them penned gently to ground until I could pick them up. Birds getting up out of dog's reach I flushed to either get down where dog could do her bit or another elevated location where I had to flush them again until all we were after were caught. The birds quickly learned to evade dog, obviously dog the greater threat, the better option was to fly up onto some structure. Getting caught on ground, despite not coming to any harm was not fun. Many of the birds under went process multiple times. Result was so treated birds would fly on site of dog with no foreplay running on ground. Some of the wise crackers would also fly up where I had hard time flushing them.

When birds brought back to more populated barn yard setting, individuals with such conditioning retained the tendency to fly up at the slightest provocation from a dog. After a short while without me further harassing them, the birds stopped reacting to me and could be tamed back down quickly.

What was really cool is the hens would condition chicks to respond in a similar manner without chicks having prior exposure to predator dog. It was really cool to see chicks only two weeks old that would burst out of a field like quail to land 10 feet up in a bush or small tree almost fifty feet away.

Breed likely was important when it comes to the learning part just as much as the capacity for flight.