raw diet experts please advise!

[watchdogps]

By chemicals, I am talking more flea powders, heartworm preventions, and other chemical I guess pesticides/poisons would be a better description. Food chemicals do not seem to affect him. He has not been tested, but my vet is monitoring him. She says that because his siezures have become so rare (maybe once every six months if even that often) to just keep an eye on him. She is the one that suggested that he may be hypoglycemic, though you are right, he is a bit on the large side for blood sugar issues.

Oddly enough, he did not start having them till he was almost two years old, right around the time he was microchipped...it has always made me wonder if his chip is somehow affecting him, but I have never heard of a microchip causing seizures. The fact that he didn't have his first one until such a late age also suggests that it is not hypoglycemia, but on the other hand, when he doesn't eat frequently he is more prone to seizures.

You dont know food chemicals dont affect him unless you have had him off all processed foods for a good period of time. You'd be amazed at how many dogs stop having seizures after things preservatives and dyes are out of their bodies.

 

[kari_dawn]

You dont know food chemicals dont affect him unless you have had him off all processed foods for a good period of time. You'd be amazed at how many dogs stop having seizures after things preservatives and dyes are out of their bodies.

This is another HUGE reason I want to try raw with him. I realize that his siezures will be more immediately reduced by stopping the afore mentioned chemicals in his environment, but slow build up over time through consumption would manifest it's self as a greatly reduced occurance of siezures (compared to high dose exposure to ambient chemicals), but the slow build up would still lead to occasional occurances. Kindof like DEET leading to the mass kill off of raptors nation wide, but manifested in a much less complex chain as a single specimen that just happens to be the sensitive creature that lives with me.

 

[watchdogps]

Maybe, maybe not. I think some of those things in food may not be stored or build up, but they cause problems while they are there, short term. We have a lot of dog owners come to the group whose dogs have seizures, and quite a few dogs have never had another seizure after starting raw. Some who were on medication cocktails are no longer on meds.

 

[kari_dawn]

Lucky for him, they are rare enough that my vet feels it is better not to medicate him (I forget what her reasoning was), but it would be amazing if he didn't have to suffer a siezure ever again. My heart breaks a little every time I have to watch him go through that...he is such a darling sweet soul. It isn't fair that he has to suffer. Ever.

It's so strange...I have never had a little dog before. I have always had big dogs...he was the best option for my current life style, and I wasn't sure how I would feel about not having a big dog around...so strange that I could be SO attached to him.

watchdogps, if it was something immediate that didn't stay in his system long, why would he not have them more regularly? One bag of food lasts a long time for such a little one, so I would expect that all the kibble in the bag has the same anomolies in it, so if there was a concentration of a chemical in the food that caused him siezures, wouldn't he have them fairly regularly through the duration of that particular bag of food?

 

[AquaEyes]

Thank you for the formula. I have done a lot of research on raw diet (and of course still have a ton to learn), but I wanted to ask people who are currently implementing it. I firmly believe that dogs were never designed to eat cereal, and should not be fed such. I also needed to make sure it would work for my "special needs" dog

I think I may give it a try for a while and see how he does.

If I feed a kibble that is all meat, except for I think sweet potatos, is that still a no no? I also give benebac, and a seaweed extract to maintain clean teeth if that makes any difference.

I'm familiar with home-made diets espoused in literature and on the internet, but I tend to disagree with the notion that "dogs were never designed to eat cereal" that many of the BARF sites keep chanting. One of their rationales is that wild canids eat herbivores, so the only plant protein they'd eat were predigested stomach contents of their herbivore prey. They neglect the fact that while wolves do assemble their packs together for hunting large herbivores, much of their day-to-day diet is much more varied, and most wild canids eat a LOT of rodents -- mice, ground squirrels, etc. In so doing, they DO come in contact with grains -- in the form of the predigested stomach contents of their granivore prey. This would be nutritionally equivalent to cooked or sprouted grains. They also go after berries and some plants directly. And wolves have a bit of a history of a fondness for raiding melon patches. Their natural diet would be between that of bears and cats. So the notion that grains are totally foreign to canids is not completely true. I think the real benefit of the home-made and BARF diets is that the animals are eating human-grade food without questionable ingredients and additives that wouldn't be considered fit for human consumption (did you know that feather meal is considered an acceptable source of protein for pet food, even though it's largely indigestible?). Good luck on your search, and I hope you find something that works well for your dog. He's lucky he has you.

 

[watchdogps]

Lucky for him, they are rare enough that my vet feels it is better not to medicate him (I forget what her reasoning was), but it would be amazing if he didn't have to suffer a siezure ever again. My heart breaks a little every time I have to watch him go through that...he is such a darling sweet soul. It isn't fair that he has to suffer. Ever.

It's so strange...I have never had a little dog before. I have always had big dogs...he was the best option for my current life style, and I wasn't sure how I would feel about not having a big dog around...so strange that I could be SO attached to him.

watchdogps, if it was something immediate that didn't stay in his system long, why would he not have them more regularly? One bag of food lasts a long time for such a little one, so I would expect that all the kibble in the bag has the same anomolies in it, so if there was a concentration of a chemical in the food that caused him siezures, wouldn't he have them fairly regularly through the duration of that particular bag of food?

Hard to say. Seizures are odd things and not very well understood as a whole. It could be a combined effect, too. Say, he is sensitive to the preservatives, but alone he can handle it, but then something else puts him over the edge and sends him into a seizure. It could be something like barometric pressure, even. But, if you remove part of the cause then it cant happen. Again, just ideas and theories, but thats all vets and Drs have too on seizures.

 

[watchdogps]

I'm familiar with home-made diets espoused in literature and on the internet, but I tend to disagree with the notion that "dogs were never designed to eat cereal" that many of the BARF sites keep chanting. One of their rationales is that wild canids eat herbivores, so the only plant protein they'd eat were predigested stomach contents of their herbivore prey. They neglect the fact that while wolves do assemble their packs together for hunting large herbivores, much of their day-to-day diet is much more varied, and most wild canids eat a LOT of rodents -- mice, ground squirrels, etc. In so doing, they DO come in contact with grains -- in the form of the predigested stomach contents of their granivore prey. This would be nutritionally equivalent to cooked or sprouted grains. They also go after berries and some plants directly. And wolves have a bit of a history of a fondness for raiding melon patches. Their natural diet would be between that of bears and cats. So the notion that grains are totally foreign to canids is not completely true. I think the real benefit of the home-made and BARF diets is that the animals are eating human-grade food without questionable ingredients and additives that wouldn't be considered fit for human consumption (did you know that feather meal is considered an acceptable source of protein for pet food, even though it's largely indigestible?). Good luck on your search, and I hope you find something that works well for your dog. He's lucky he has you.

Most wild canines do not eat stomach contents. Even if they did eat the entire rodent, the amount of grain in the stomach would be negligible. Rodents are grazers, not gorgers, so they may have a few grains in their gut. Yes, they will sometimes eat things other than animals, but they are opportunists, it doesnt mean they need those things. Many dogs can eat non-animal foods without harm but some need ALL grain and plant products out of their diet. I always suggest starting with a strict animal-only diet if you are dealing with any issues, and then you can try adding in the other stuff later. That way if the dog has a reaction, you know the culprit for sure.

 

[kari_dawn]

Im not saying that they do not eat grain or plant matter, but simply that emulsified beef fat sprayed over a corn pop (so that it smells palatable to him) does not equal food for dogs! LOL Dogs are actually more omniverous than most people give them credit for...as you stated, they DO eat carbs and plants in small amounts. Sugars are one thing my dog tends to gravitate towards, way more than I would like

I discovered by accident that one of Bacardi's favorite foods in the world is white flesh peaches (I left them on a low bench while I went to get stuff from the car...he consumed one, and was half way through another by the time I found him, and to this day he will do just about anything for a taste of one)! Dogs are obligate carnivores, which means they really have a hard time digesting protiens not derived from animal sources. Some cheap foods do still use chicken feathers as "protien" sources in their formulas. Usually, you can tell by looking at the coat quality and clarity in the dog's eyes wether they are one of the unfortunate souls forced to consume such foods. I think an even bigger issue with most commercial dog foods is ground corn being such a huge component in the feed, and the tremendous ammount of processing what is basically corn flour is why I liken it to cereal. Dog food almost makes a better chicken food than a dog food.

The food Bacardi is currently on has no grains at all in it. He likes it quite well.

That was another thing I was wondering about raw feeding...do you guys include carb or other food sources like sweet potatos, peas, carrots, etc in any ammounts?

 

[kari_dawn]

lol looks like you answered my question while I was typing!

 

[kari_dawn]

Okay, so I have another question. Since I add benebac (which is a probiotic powder, suspended in sucralose powder) regularly, and the seaweed extract for his teeth, if we start on this raw diet journey, would I need to stop those things while he gets used to the raw diet to see how it affects him?