RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[Chris09]

Because the people I bought my birds from told me and they have been in business since 1917. I do not think a business would last that long by misleading it's customers.

Assuming the people /business you are talking about is Murray McMurray Hatchery [like you stated when asked where you got your Rhode Island Red from]
I would say they have been misleading there customers ever since they started selling cross bred chickens [EE's] as Araucanas.

Chris​

 

[Illia]

Quote:
Assuming the people /business you are talking about is Murray McMurray Hatchery [like you stated when asked where you got your Rhode Island Red from]
I would say they have been misleading there customers ever since they started selling cross bred chickens [EE's] as Araucanas.

Chris

I was just going to say that. Even if Murray McMurray wasn't the hatchery meant, I'd bring them up as an excellent example of a poultry business that has been running for at least a century, and has been lying for scores of years.

I've gotten "Brahmas" that are Rock crosses from them, they are the worst carriers of Polish and Houdans, they've been breeding production reds for as long as they've been a hatchery, they were the ones who started the false name of "New Hampshire Reds," and of course who can't resist to add the fact that they STILL claim to have Araucanas, they started the false name of "Americana" and they even give their customers papers gauranteeing that the chicks they receive can be shown.

. . . Their comment section on their "Araucana/Americanas" even has an anonymous person claiming to win Champions on their mutt birds. A real show would DQ any Easter Egger from Mcmurray in a second.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Because the people I bought my birds from told me and they have been in business since 1917. I do not think a business would last that long by misleading it's customers. because they give good egg laying birds I can also ask you the same question. How do you know your birds were not cross bred to make them conform more to a SOP I got mine from good show winning lines? If my birds were crossed with leghorns, then my birds would not breed true. after a while they would I have not found that to be the case yet. I am only on my second generation of RIRs though.

and you challenge them with a hatchery bird?

I have NOT challenged anyone. I do not agree with Chris' opinion, that is not a challenge. I have also stated on numerous occasions that Chris & Bob and any other breeder that raise and breed for SQ have "prettier" birds, birds that are more in line with the APA SOP. That does not make them MORE RIR than mine. If you look at the history of the RIR breed you will see that different breeders bred for different qualities. Did some cross with Mediterranean stock to boost egg production yes Murry Mcmurry? I do not know, but it would not surprise me. I will then ask you, have any of the "Heritage" breeders ever crossed their strain to improve a SOP weakness? they just breed best to be not mix a new breed in As far as I can tell, and I am no expert in poultry breeding, it is an accepted process. I would suspect that is why the standards of linage are as vague as they are.

show us pics of your "RIR" and we can show you the difference.

What really are you going to show me between a couple of pics? how your's compare to true RIR

I am just trying to prove Chris's point.

What is it that you think is Chris' point? that your brds are NOT heritage

another thing the birds you got you say are RIR, then why do they look the same as the NH from hatcheries?

Could you be more specific as to which birds you are speaking of?​

punky
ETA: how about this what lines are Murry Mcmurry birds?​

 

[spartacus_63]

Do you have any proof that they, their parents, grandparents, have been bred to or neat the SOP?

What is the standard of proof?

Do you have any proof that they, their parents, grandparents, have been bred to or neat the SOP?

See above answer.

Did they come from stock who has been bred to such?

I believe I have already answered this.

How much do you HENS weigh? You show a rooster, sure, which is from a hatchery that is FAR from heritage, but what of your hens? And where's a side view of the rooster?

My hatchery hens average 6 1/2 lbs at 12 months. My flock raised pullets averaged just under 6 lbs at 32 weeks. I sent three of my cokerels to freezer camp, one of which I should have kept but I was uncertain of which bird laid his egg. He was a full 7 1/2 lbs at 20 weeks. In regard to my Roo, I must ask, how you define heritage and where you get the authority to determine if my birds meet an industry standard...or is that just another opinion?

As for pictures, I don't really think you all are interested in anything other than degrading my birds or my photographic prowess. If you are truly interested you are more than welcome to come visit me and we can discuss the history, husbandry and standards in the poultry world.

It is because the ALBC counts hatchery stock birds. Read their explaination on the website.

So where then do you get your criteria for determining what birds are which breed? Whose definition of "Heritage" are you looking to?

Also if we've settled to nothing, not answer the OP's original question. . . Enlighten us, and tell us, have you helped in answering it? wink

That was not my point and I appologise if I was unclear, but I did answer the original post.
The OP's original subject & question:

RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

What are the differences? All I have found is the name difference. I am looking for a GREAT layer that will not go broody. I will keep a few buffs for that. What are some suggestions? Thank you

-Nate

My response:

"New Hampshire Reds are derived directly from Rhode Island Reds, and over the years they've changed so much from selective breeding that they've come to be recognized as a new breed. The New Hampshire Red differs from the Rhode Island in that it produces more meat (and therefore fewer eggs), it's faster to grow and feather out, it matures early and it's even more vigorous. "

My response was a quote from a different site, which I also stated.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Let me guess they were there, "Light Brahmas" [The classic Columbian Rock/ Light Brahma cross].

Chris

 

[punky rooster]

spin-offs of RIR

The next spin-off is a bird that today tries to carry the name of the Rhode Island Red - the popular hatchery Production Red. Production Reds were developed to compete with the Rhode Island Reds in egg laying contests. Crossing Leghorn blood into the standard Rhode Island Red gave an edge on the resultant offspring, which would be used in competition. The ROP egg laying contests held in the North East were supposed to have strict standards; only allowing 10 purebred pullets, that were true to the breed in competition, to be entered by any poultry farm. But it appears the officials of many of the contests did not enforce all the rules. Perhaps they allowed the Production Reds into competition out curiosity? Perhaps they felt a more productive commercial line of brown egg-layer was needed?

Robert Blosl's web site​

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
Robert Blosl's web site

Unfortunately, the Standard Rhode Island Red breeders who competed honestly in these Northern ROP contests were beaten by these non-standard high egg-laying birds, and by the 1950s the Production Reds and the commercial New Hampshire’s just about put the purebred Rhode Island Red into extinction. Because of the new popularity of the Production Red and New Hampshire, by 1947 the Rhode Island Red Club membership dropped from a high of 5000 members in the late 1920s, to about 275 members in the early 1950s. This was the beginning of the commercial boom in this country for large chicken house cage operations, and the Production Red soon dominated the brown egg-laying market.

punky​

 

[Illia]

Quote:
Let me guess they were there, "Light Brahmas" [The classic Columbian Rock/ Light Brahma cross].

Chris

Yep. Course, three of my girls aren't even "Columbian" in color (they're practically silver pencilled)

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
What is the standard of proof?

Do you have any proof that they, their parents, grandparents, have been bred to or neat the SOP?

See above answer.

Did they come from stock who has been bred to such?

I believe I have already answered this.​

I guessing by your responses here you have no idea about the background of your birds, and since you have no idea about the background you cant say they are pure bred and not a cross.

My hatchery hens average 6 1/2 lbs at 12 months

It is a 12 month old Rooster and not a good shot. he was just over 8 1/2 lbs when this pic was taken.

Ether you are quoting the SOP [down to the 1/2 lb] or your real lucky those birds got exactly what the standard calls for down to the 1/2 lb..

Chris​

 

[spartacus_63]

Because the people I bought my birds from told me and they have been in business since 1917. I do not think a business would last that long by misleading it's customers. because they give good egg laying birds I can also ask you the same question. How do you know your birds were not cross bred to make them conform more to a SOP I got mine from good show winning lines? If my birds were crossed with leghorns, then my birds would not breed true. after a while they would I have not found that to be the case yet. I am only on my second generation of RIRs though.

So you have no more reason than I do to believe your source. And actually there is less and less of a chance that my birds will throw some type of cross trait the longer I breed them. Especially when selectively breeding.

yes Murry Mcmurry

they just breed best to be not mix a new breed in

And you know this, how?

how your's compare to true RIR & that your brds are NOT heritage

These are example of your prejudice.

Could you be more specific as to which birds you are speaking of?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/63711_hampshire-red.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/63711_roosternhredonsnowdscf1642-710666.jpg
punky
ETA: how about this what lines are Murry Mcmurry birds?

I am unfamiliar with either of the birds in those pictures so I really can't speak to them.

So how many eggs/year do you get from your birds and which shows do you have champions in?​