RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[spartacus_63]

Quote:
What is the standard of proof?

Do you have any proof that they, their parents, grandparents, have been bred to or neat the SOP?

See above answer.

Did they come from stock who has been bred to such?

I believe I have already answered this.​

I guessing by your responses here you have no idea about the background of your birds, and since you have no idea about the background you cant say they are pure bred and not a cross.

My hatchery hens average 6 1/2 lbs at 12 months

It is a 12 month old Rooster and not a good shot. he was just over 8 1/2 lbs when this pic was taken.

Ether you are quoting the SOP [down to the 1/2 lb] or your real lucky those birds got exactly what the standard calls for down to the 1/2 lb..

Chris​

Well Chris, I guess there is nothing I can do. I replied above for a more specific question. I guess I could have just said yes and been done with it. My birds meet the ALBC standard to be marketed as a Heritage bird. If that does not sit well with you, I recommend that you take that up with them

You are unwilling to accept what I say is accurate. You are welcome to come to my little homestead and weigh my birds for yourself if you like. I would show you my records and I would enjoy discussing poultry techniques with you. I have faith in the hatchery from which I started my flock. If my birds do not sustain themselves then one of two conclusions can be made, either I failed in breeding, or the hatchery was less than honest in their claims. In the end, you have no more reason to believe your source than I do.​

 

[spartacus_63]

Quote:
Robert Blosl's web site

Unfortunately, the Standard Rhode Island Red breeders who competed honestly in these Northern ROP contests were beaten by these non-standard high egg-laying birds, and by the 1950s the Production Reds and the commercial New Hampshire’s just about put the purebred Rhode Island Red into extinction. Because of the new popularity of the Production Red and New Hampshire, by 1947 the Rhode Island Red Club membership dropped from a high of 5000 members in the late 1920s, to about 275 members in the early 1950s. This was the beginning of the commercial boom in this country for large chicken house cage operations, and the Production Red soon dominated the brown egg-laying market.

punky​

Although this makes a great article for the RIRCA, are we to assume that the ROP was rigged? That the judges were some how unfair or lest we say cheated? This sounds a bit like revisionist history to me.

 

[ve]

No metter hou much Production reds weight,they look diferent.spartacus-63 why you want to call your Production red birds -Rhode Islands(heritage) if they are not.Production Reds are nice birds and I like them.Sorry for my English.

 

[crash0330]

Quote:
I think that was already stated, that hatchery RIR do not look 100% like the original birds, but I think you also have to question yourself do all of those breeders RIR have ALL the qualities that the original RIR's had or is it that because they look more similar then all the other qualities of the original bird are overlooked??

 

[Lotsapaints]

Back to the original question my New Hampshires that are from a breeder laid their first egg at 18 weeks they were just teasing me they are not laying everyday...they are beautiful look like polished red orange glass on fire very friendly and calm I like them very much. To me RIR look like a fine deep red wine and they take longer to lay 22 to 24 weeks....I find hatchery birds run smaller than breeder stock and have much more pinched tails just look average nothing wrong with that hatcheries breed their birds to lay eggs and they might even die from laying so many eggs and they only lay well for 3 years maybe and most do not get broody...I want birds for eggs and meat so I prefer breeder stock much heavier beefy birds and most of mine lay the same as hatchery stock just bigger browner eggs it seems. You can call your birds what you want but I would never mistake them for high quality stock spartacus_63 but if you are not going to show it doesn't matter you pay the feed bill and this is America I think that it is still the land of the free

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
So you have no more reason than I do to believe your source.http://www.poultrycongress.com/ look in results for Guy Roy an also on the bottem of the page where it says "please support these shows" and check results he is agreat breeder of SQ birdsAnd actually there is less and less of a chance that my birds will throw some type of cross trait the longer I breed them. Especially when selectively breeding.

yes Murry Mcmurry

they just breed best to be not mix a new breed in

And you know this, how? that is for the breeders. how do you know if your birds are true RIR: you have no proof that they are true not only that but the birds you have do not have correct color and shape for a true RIR we have shown pics of real RIR (on page 1) and yours look like the classic production red.

how your's compare to true RIR & that your brds are NOT heritage

These are example of your prejudice. this shows how much you know of True RIR

Could you be more specific as to which birds you are speaking of?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/63711_hampshire-red.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/63711_roosternhredonsnowdscf1642-710666.jpg
punky
ETA: how about this what lines are Murry Mcmurry birds?

I am unfamiliar with either of the birds in those pictures so I really can't speak to them. those are hatchery NH

So how many eggs/year do you get from your birds and which shows do you have champions in? I have only has them a short while and I have not gotten any eggs yet, but my birds are true in type and color​

punky​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
If you don't know anything about the background of your birds and if they don't meet ASOP what makes you think they come remotely close to ALBC's classification of a Heritage bird?

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Quote:
If you don't know anything about the background of your birds and if they don't meet ASOP what makes you think they come remotely close to ALBC's classification of a Heritage bird?

Chris

Since there is no standard of proof for linage, I will take the breeder/hatchery's word for it. This will not be an issue in another year anyway. I will have three generation of RIRs within my own flock. If the ALBC has a problem with my hatchery, then I would reconsider. As for being remotely close to the ALBC's definition of a Heritage bird, I think I already covered that in an earlier post. Point, by point.

I believe that my birds do follow the APA SOP guidelines. Although, I doubt I'll be winning any ribbons (mostly cause I won't be participating.) I can read, and none of my RIRs have any DQs that I am aware of.

 

[spartacus_63]

that is for the breeders. how do you know if your birds are true RIR: you have no proof that they are true not only that but the birds you have do not have correct color and shape for a true RIR we have shown pics of real RIR (on page 1) and yours look like the classic production red.

I have as much proof on my birds as you have on your birds and since I have a second generation bred from my stock that has bred true, and I have a record of egg and meat production, I can currently say with more confidence than you that my birds are not cross bred. You can make assumptions all day long but facts are facts.

this shows how much you know of True RIR

You have no idea of what I know.

those are hatchery NH

I do not follow your point on this one. They are not my birds and I don't own any NH. Although I have read some of Sugar Mountain Farms blogs.

I have only has them a short while and I have not gotten any eggs yet, but my birds are true in type and color

I wish you great success when your birds do start laying or in the show ring, what ever your goals are.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
If you don't know anything about the background of your birds and if they don't meet ASOP what makes you think they come remotely close to ALBC's classification of a Heritage bird?

Chris

Since there is no standard of proof for linage, I will take the breeder/hatchery's word for it. This will not be an issue in another year anyway. I will have three generation of RIRs within my own flock. If the ALBC has a problem with my hatchery, then I would reconsider. As for being remotely close to the ALBC's definition of a Heritage bird, I think I already covered that in an earlier post. Point, by point.

I believe that my birds do follow the APA SOP guidelines. Although, I doubt I'll be winning any ribbons (mostly cause I won't be participating.) I can read, and none of my RIRs have any DQs that I am aware of.

OK,
Your Bird will not meet ALBC standard to be marketed as a Heritage bird because t he do not meet the ASOP breed standard.
As I stated before if you read page 32 under DQ's you will see the any bird that lacks in breed characteristics can be DQ'ed and your bird lacks in breed characteristics.
From the picture you posted I can see that bird lacks in flatness of back, length of back, broadness of back, brick shape, lacks in uniform color.

If a judge wanted to they could DQ your bird for lack of breed characteristic.

To tell you the truth what you have are red chickens that a hatchery called a Rhode Island Red....

Chris