Rooster unable to hold his head up

[Brissychick]

Update

For a couple of weeks Carl the rooster was doing great. But one day I realised I hadn't heard him crow (which is very unusual as he loves the sound of his own voice). He wasn't well again but slightly different this time. HEn just seemed depressed. He has put on weight and looking after his feathers. I took him back up to his ICU and hes gone from bad to worse. He started limping and holding up one leg and now he can't stand at all. He's feeding drinking vitamin water and his head is up. I'm going to give him until the end of the week to turn around And I'll reassess. I'm wondering if he has internal damage.

I've examined the legs and feet. There is no signs of damage or swelling or sore feet. He can feel his feet but cant place them.
I put his coop on vitamins when I put him back. He was mating and completely back to his old self.

I'm at a loss what to do other than give him time.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi
I'm sorry to hear that he has deteriorated again. Unfortunately, in my experience this second incident would suggest he has Marek's disease. The fact that he recovered without any obvious treatment and then after being fine for a few weeks, had another attack and both occasions he was exhibiting neurological symptoms.... neck weakness the first time and now the more classic lameness without any obvious cause.
All I can suggest is vitamin supplements, good nutrition, sunshine and grass wherever possible and the company of other chickens but in a safe environment where he can't get picked on.... unfortunately the rest of your flock have already been exposed, so there is little benefit in isolating him. At least once a day encourage him to walk a short distance, even if he has to crawl.... it sometimes helps them to re-coordinate their limb movement, especially if they have a goal like food or seeking shelter for the night. A chicken sling/hammock will help to keep him upright for the majority of the time if he is unable to stand. They can easily be made from everyday items....


Keep him as happy and stress free as possible and as long as he is easting there is hope. I find putting my Marek's birds in a cage on the lawn in the sunshine and scattering scratch in and around the cage encourages the flock to forage around them and then to forage.... competition for food can be beneficial and it helps them to focus and not get depressed like they do when they are isolated.
Once they lose interest in food and poops turn green, I find it is time to euthanize them. Unfortunately he will almost certainly have another attack if he recovers from this one but they can have months or even a year of good healthy in between attacks.
Good luck with him.

 

[Brissychick]

Hi
I'm sorry to hear that he has deteriorated again. Unfortunately, in my experience this second incident would suggest he has Marek's disease. The fact that he recovered without any obvious treatment and then after being fine for a few weeks, had another attack and both occasions he was exhibiting neurological symptoms.... neck weakness the first time and now the more classic lameness without any obvious cause.
All I can suggest is vitamin supplements, good nutrition, sunshine and grass wherever possible and the company of other chickens but in a safe environment where he can't get picked on.... unfortunately the rest of your flock have already been exposed, so there is little benefit in isolating him. At least once a day encourage him to walk a short distance, even if he has to crawl.... it sometimes helps them to re-coordinate their limb movement, especially if they have a goal like food or seeking shelter for the night. A chicken sling/hammock will help to keep him upright for the majority of the time if he is unable to stand. They can easily be made from everyday items....
View attachment 1195962

Keep him as happy and stress free as possible and as long as he is easting there is hope. I find putting my Marek's birds in a cage on the lawn in the sunshine and scattering scratch in and around the cage encourages the flock to forage around them and then to forage.... competition for food can be beneficial and it helps them to focus and not get depressed like they do when they are isolated.
Once they lose interest in food and poops turn green, I find it is time to euthanize them. Unfortunately he will almost certainly have another attack if he recovers from this one but they can have months or even a year of good healthy in between attacks.
Good luck with him.

Thank you so much for your message. Oh my god, That's terrifying. I'll do my best. I lost a hen a week ago, laid an egg the day before. Just fell off her perch dead overnight. Oh god I hope it's not but it makes sense. We have so many wild birds here. Oh god I hope you're wrong....I mean that in the nicest way. It's so hard to get vaccinations around here and it comes in doses of 1000. I have 60-70 chicks on the ground with no protection. I'm terrified
I'll see if I can test for it. I was due to sell some birds, I won't sell if they are sick.

 

[Eggcessive]

So sorry about Carl the rooster and his relapse. It does sound like Mareks to me as well, although I have not had that personal experience as Barbara has. I would urge you to contact your state poultry vet ahead of time to find out how to send Fred's refrigerated body, if he dies, into them for a necropsy and testing for Mareks. It is best done on a dead bird, where they test feather shafts and any tumor tissue found. Testing on a live bird is not very accurate, and is expensive, just to get false results.

 

[Brissychick]

So sorry about Carl the rooster and his relapse. It does sound like Mareks to me as well, although I have not had that personal experience as Barbara has. I would urge you to contact your state poultry vet ahead of time to find out how to send Fred's refrigerated body, if he dies, into them for a necropsy and testing for Mareks. It is best done on a dead bird, where they test feather shafts and any tumor tissue found. Testing on a live bird is not very accurate, and is expensive, just to get false results.

Thank you very much. It's good to share knowledge.

An interim update

He's standing up this morning almost like nothing is wrong. He's still limping And reluctant to move around the carrier but he's standing. More than he would consider yesterday. I forgot to mention when he's down he sits straight with his legs curled under him. In other words he sits on his legs, I am unable to see them. When I lift him he pulls his legs up. He doesn't like it when they are stretched.
I have zero experience with mareks is that typical behaviour? I'm so worried for my entire flock.

Maybe it's extreme wishful thinking but could it be possible that this could explain the occurrences. The coop they were in had some very nasty spiders in it. Huntsmans and I found funnel Web tunnels. I hoped due to the puncture marks, purple colour and swelling on Carl's wattles that that was the cause. I treated the coop and moved it.

I appreciate your help and guidance and honesty. If you both agree it's mareks I'll euthanise him and send off for necropsy. I must be certain before I can bring myself to do it. We have a special bond it's difficult to think about but I must do the best for my entire flock.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would see how he gets along, and get a necropsy if he dies. A lot depends on how much time you can devote to his care, and for how long.

 

[rebrascora]

I think it is entirely possible that the swollen wattle was caused by a spider bite and that may have triggered the Marek's attack. The fact that you have had other birds with wry neck suggests to me that they were most likely Marek's sufferers too. What you may not realise is that Marek's is far more common than people would have you believe. It is worldwide and very easily contracted. If you have ever bought a bird from a breeder or an auction/swap, even a perfectly healthy looking one and followed quarantine, then there is a good chance that is how your flock got the disease. If you have acquired birds from more than one different source, then that increses your chances of bringing it into your flock. Having birds of different ages, usually with juvenile/adolescent birds, is when it shows itself, but your adult flock may have been "carrying" the disease for years before that with no obvious symptoms.
I'm not personally a fan of the vaccine for a number of reasons and I really don't believe it is beneficial for back yard flocks.
I cannot advise you to euthanize your boy or not. I personally nurse Marek's birds until they either get better or lose interest in food. That is my critical point for euthanizing, as they go downhill rapidly after that. I've nursed birds for months and had some pretty dramatic recoveries, so I would not be the one to tell you to call time on your guy in order to get a diagnosis. However, if you are a breeder and are selling birds, then you may feel it is more important to know what you are dealing with and feel that sacrificing your rooster for that purpose is the right thing to do, but only you can make that decision.

I appreciate that you are in a difficult position because you have so many young chicks that may be vulnerable to it, but I think you have probably been living with this disease for a while now without even knowing it, so I would not panic. In my experience the disease is not as horrendous as much of what you read. I broody hatched and reared 56 chicks last year and only 3 developed Marek's symptoms and one fully recovered from that first attack and reached adulthood, before sadly falling victim to a fox. I get an occasional 2 or 3 year old bird show symptoms and I currently have a 4.5 year old that has had her first minor outbreak of it but after a couple of months, she is doing well and pretty much back to normal. I hope that gives you a little hope that, if it is Marek's, it is not necessarily the end of the world.
There are a some companies that are offering live Marek's testing. There is a reputable poultry vet here in the UK that are providing a mail order service (I believe) on samples from a live animal and it is not expensive (about £18 I think) but I do not know how reliable the results are. Obviously if the bird has been vaccinated for Marek's I would imagine it will give a positive reading for such a test, so in that case it might not be useful.

Whilst we might strongly suspect that you are dealing with Marek's, none of us can say for sure. I did a DIY post mortem exam on my first bird that died of Marek's symptoms and the tumours were pretty obvious and conclusive in my opinion. If you still have the pullet that died, you might want to take a look inside her yourself. A day or two delay will not cause a significant problem for a DIY job but a professional organisation would probably not accept her after that length of time unless she had been refrigerated. Any visceral tumours should be pretty obvious.... usually tumours on the heart cause sudden death like that. Of course, she may have had something other than Marek's that killed her, but if it was a visceral tumour (which would indicate Marek's) then it might help you decide what to do with this rooster.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[Brissychick]

I think it is entirely possible that the swollen wattle was caused by a spider bite and that may have triggered the Marek's attack. The fact that you have had other birds with wry neck suggests to me that they were most likely Marek's sufferers too. What you may not realise is that Marek's is far more common than people would have you believe. It is worldwide and very easily contracted. If you have ever bought a bird from a breeder or an auction/swap, even a perfectly healthy looking one and followed quarantine, then there is a good chance that is how your flock got the disease. If you have acquired birds from more than one different source, then that increses your chances of bringing it into your flock. Having birds of different ages, usually with juvenile/adolescent birds, is when it shows itself, but your adult flock may have been "carrying" the disease for years before that with no obvious symptoms.
I'm not personally a fan of the vaccine for a number of reasons and I really don't believe it is beneficial for back yard flocks.
I cannot advise you to euthanize your boy or not. I personally nurse Marek's birds until they either get better or lose interest in food. That is my critical point for euthanizing, as they go downhill rapidly after that. I've nursed birds for months and had some pretty dramatic recoveries, so I would not be the one to tell you to call time on your guy in order to get a diagnosis. However, if you are a breeder and are selling birds, then you may feel it is more important to know what you are dealing with and feel that sacrificing your rooster for that purpose is the right thing to do, but only you can make that decision.

I appreciate that you are in a difficult position because you have so many young chicks that may be vulnerable to it, but I think you have probably been living with this disease for a while now without even knowing it, so I would not panic. In my experience the disease is not as horrendous as much of what you read. I broody hatched and reared 56 chicks last year and only 3 developed Marek's symptoms and one fully recovered from that first attack and reached adulthood, before sadly falling victim to a fox. I get an occasional 2 or 3 year old bird show symptoms and I currently have a 4.5 year old that has had her first minor outbreak of it but after a couple of months, she is doing well and pretty much back to normal. I hope that gives you a little hope that, if it is Marek's, it is not necessarily the end of the world.
There are a some companies that are offering live Marek's testing. There is a reputable poultry vet here in the UK that are providing a mail order service (I believe) on samples from a live animal and it is not expensive (about £18 I think) but I do not know how reliable the results are. Obviously if the bird has been vaccinated for Marek's I would imagine it will give a positive reading for such a test, so in that case it might not be useful.

Whilst we might strongly suspect that you are dealing with Marek's, none of us can say for sure. I did a DIY post mortem exam on my first bird that died of Marek's symptoms and the tumours were pretty obvious and conclusive in my opinion. If you still have the pullet that died, you might want to take a look inside her yourself. A day or two delay will not cause a significant problem for a DIY job but a professional organisation would probably not accept her after that length of time unless she had been refrigerated. Any visceral tumours should be pretty obvious.... usually tumours on the heart cause sudden death like that. Of course, she may have had something other than Marek's that killed her, but if it was a visceral tumour (which would indicate Marek's) then it might help you decide what to do with this rooster.

Best wishes

Barbara

Barbara thank you very much. That is awesome advice. Sadly I made an assumption on the hen and disposed of her corpse. When I loose another I'll perform a necropsy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time with me and anyone else who might read this. I'll update when I know more.

 

[Saaniya]

Hello there ..
I'm facing similar situation with my 5 months old rooster (teetee) whose showing symptoms with neck from 3 days and he's also loss his appetite he earlier on the medication for respiratory issue vet gave some antibiotic called neodox and after that he loss his appetite ..now I'm treating him with vitamins for his neck issue love to ur bae

 

[Brissychick]

Hello there ..
I'm facing similar situation with my 5 months old rooster (teetee) whose showing symptoms with neck from 3 days and he's also loss his appetite he earlier on the medication for respiratory issue vet gave some antibiotic called neodox and after that he loss his appetite ..now I'm treating him with vitamins for his neck issue love to ur bae

It's so hard when a part of your family /flock gets sick. I hope you're little man recovers.
Let us know how you go with teetee