Safeguard and Feather Damage While Molting

[AugeredIn]

Just found this link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...au&s=48c3100c6bdd0c1b4cc987cdf52b880b21c9e1f8

It says that to treat capillary worms in most bird species to give fenbendazole at 50mg per kg for five days. That means to give the Safeguard amount listed in post number eight for five days in a row!

-Kathy

We give Safeguard at higher doses than normally quoted for use in water for three days and find it to be effective in worming with no harmful effects and NO loss of fertility in our tests. I would guess we would have seen feather issues if they existed. Of course most all worming effectiveness is circumstantial since it is not practical to actually measure some types of worm loads (capillary/cecal).

Fenbendazole is obviously has a high factor of safety with regards to dosage. The fertility thing with regards to fenbendazole is something that has grown legs and become legend. We have not specifically tested Valbazen with regards fertility but we have heard that it both does and does not cause infertility from folks we would trust.

 

[KsKingBee]

I worm in water so have no idea about putting meds in feed. Why would hard water make a difference? We have it here and in 8 years of worming I've never had a problem. Your question about worming during molting is interesting. You might post the question direct to "Resolution" that is active at posting on backyardchickens. If you get an answer could you please share it. Back to worming.....I do pour the water with wormer in it back and forth from their water bucket to another bucket to keep it mixed well at least a couple times a day.

Well, crud, let's try it again, I came back from supper and found that the four paragraphs I had written was gone.

This time I will be a LOT shorter with my answer.

I have found that the treatments I have been giving have been totally useless. I have given Corid for two weeks with a Safeguard before and in between the Corid and fecal examinations showed so much Cocci in the float slide that the vet could not see anything else in the scope. She said that it was becoming known in the veterinary circles that hard water, especially sulfur is negating the chemical compounds when given in drinking water for livestock. Her recommendation was to give the meds in the birds wet mash morning and evening using filtered soft water.

The reference I gave about feather damage came from a thread here on BYC and in it was a link to a MSU study. I have been told that there are multiple studies that quote damage to feathers growing back in when given safeguard during molt. But as Zaz said, better a live bird with funky feathers than a dead bird with perfect feathers

 

[KsKingBee]

The Safeguard or Panacur (both are 10% fenbendazole) dose I use to treat my peafowl for cecal and roundworms is 50mg/kg (0.5ml per 2.2 pounds). Based on that, my peafowl get:

Large adult male - 3ml
Large adult female - 2ml
Small adult male - 2ml
Small adult female - 1.5ml
Large 3 month old chick - 1ml
Medium 3 month old chick - 0.8ml
Small 3 month old chick - 0.7
Above doses are for liquid *or* paste.

According to a study I read and the recommendation of a vet, the most effective Valbazen dose is 20mg/kg (0.176ml per 2.2 pounds). Based on that, the Valbazen dose for peafowl would be:
Large adult male - 1.05ml
Large adult female - 0.7ml
Small adult male - 0.7ml
Small adult female - 0.53ml
Large 3 month old chick - 0.35ml
Medium 3 month old chick - 0.28ml
Small 3 month old chick - 0.25ml

Valbazen is 11.36% albendazole (113.6mg/ml)

Note that I did not include amounts for chicks under 3 months, but that's not because they cannot or should not be wormed, it's because I need to look up their weights on my computer.

I prefer to work all of mine orally, but I can understand why some people don't want to, and I guess if I had to choose between food or water or food, I'd choose food. To do that I would guess the weight of my flock in pounds or kg and do a little math. I would then most likely put the amount of Safeguard or Valbazen needed in some water, mix well and then I'd use that water to make a mash. I think Zazouse puts her wormer in eggs?

Hope this helps,
Kathy

Edited to add:
Safeguard or Valbazen, dose once, then ten days later.

Just found this link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...au&s=48c3100c6bdd0c1b4cc987cdf52b880b21c9e1f8

It says that to treat capillary worms in most bird species to give fenbendazole at 50mg per kg for five days. That means to give the Safeguard amount listed in post number eight for five days in a row!

-Kathy

Kathy, you and my vet are on the exact same page! She gave me the same dosing instructions you give here and for the five days. I asked about Valbazen and she said that she recommends Safeguard because it is safer. The five days is to insure that ALL worms are killed, and that a second application is not needed but worming may be necessary more often than two times a year.

I asked about the standard recommendation that we all read here about the three CCs per gallon of water and she said that would be totally ineffective.

The fecals done today, one from the grow out pen and one from the adults showed Cocci in the chicks with one round worm egg and no Cocci in the adults with only a couple of round worm eggs. I have been giving the .006% preventative dosage in the chicks since doing the moderate dosing for one week. Her thought was that since the chicks have been growing that I probably have not been giving enough to keep up with their growth rate. She ordered a liter of Safeguard for me and I will start the adults tomorrow and I have upped the Corid dosage on the chicks feed tonight already.

I am very happy that the Corid in the feed has cleaned up the adult Cocci and with your and my vets recommendations I know what direction to go. Thanks to all for the input.

 

[bdfive]

I don't think Resolution has posted on this forum in a couple years, can't find any of his post by his name so it has been a while sence he has logged in 

Hmmmm, doesn't seem that long since I last posted with him on some issues.

 

[bdfive]

Kathy, you and my vet are on the exact same page!  She gave me the same dosing instructions you give here and for the five days.  I asked about Valbazen and she said that she recommends Safeguard because it is safer.  The five days is to insure that ALL worms are killed, and that a second application is not needed but worming may be necessary more often than two times a year.

I asked about the standard recommendation that we all read here about the three CCs per gallon of water and she said that would be totally ineffective.

The fecals done today, one from the grow out pen and one from the adults showed Cocci in the chicks with one round worm egg and no Cocci in the adults with only a couple of round worm eggs.  I have been giving the .006% preventative dosage in the chicks since doing the moderate dosing for one week.  Her thought was that since the chicks have been growing that I probably have not been giving enough to keep up with their growth rate.  She ordered a liter of Safeguard for me and I will start the adults tomorrow and I have upped the Corid dosage on the chicks feed tonight already.

I am very happy that the Corid in the feed has cleaned up the adult Cocci and with your and my vets recommendations I know what direction to go.  Thanks to all for the input.   

________________________________

So how many CCs of Safeguard in water would you use? I've used as much as 5 CCs in a gallon. Is that enough? Thanks!

 

[bdfive]

Some minerals in hard water might interact with certain medications.

-Kathy

Thanks Kathy

 

[zazouse]

Hmmmm, doesn't seem that long since I last posted with him on some issues.

last post in the peafowl section was 5/16/2012 last post elswhere was 6/29/12 and last log in was 2 /9 2013

time flys when you are having fun LOL

 

[zazouse]

We give Safeguard at higher doses than normally quoted for use in water for three days and find it to be effective in worming with no harmful effects and NO loss of fertility in our tests. I would guess we would have seen feather issues if they existed. Of course most all worming effectiveness is circumstantial since it is not practical to actually measure some types of worm loads (capillary/cecal).

Fenbendazole is obviously has a high factor of safety with regards to dosage. The fertility thing with regards to fenbendazole is something that has grown legs and become legend. We have not specifically tested Valbazen with regards fertility but we have heard that it both does and does not cause infertility from folks we would trust.

My husbands weiner dog passed some round worms after being on heartguard all his life and i questioned the vet about that as the meds were supose to keep them away and i asked if it was ok to go ahead and worm him with safeguard sence he had already had his meds and the vet informed me that there is a reason it is called safeguard, it is very hard to overdose an animal on it and it was ok to use it on Tobie even though he had his heartguard recently.

 

[zazouse]

I slept in line to see the Rolling Stones in '81.

-Kathy

Well that is a totally different story

 

[KsKingBee]

________________________________

So how many CCs of Safeguard in water would you use? I've used as much as 5 CCs in a gallon. Is that enough? Thanks!

It is not the amount of medication in the water that is important, it is the amount of medication that enters the birds body relative to its weight. An adult peacock weighs approximately six Kg, the prescribed dosage of .50ml per Kg means that the bird needs 3ml per day in its system. If you put three ml/cc in a gallon of water the bird has to drink ALL that water to get enough of the drug to be effective.