Separating chick feed and layer feed

[RoyalChick]

Dang it, i just bought a big bag of it

That is why I mentioned it being safe for everyone.
I had that problem - they only had a big bag in stock even though I knew I only needed a little bag - but I had no choice so I had to go with the big bag. I ended up feeding it to everyone for a couple of weeks just to use it up.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Since you already bought it, just feed the medicated starter to everyone when the time comes. I would rather feed hens and chicks that, than feeding layer to both hens and chicks.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hopping in here. though you've had good advice, albeit somewhat scattered.

Whether or not to feed medicated feed is a personal decision, informed by circumstances. Some never feed it. Some always feed it, to birds of all ages. Most are somewhere inbetween. Eggs (and meat) from birds eating medicated feed (assuming amprolium, the most common coccidiostat in the US) is perfectly safe to consume. Even the same day they ate the feed. There is no "waiting period" for the stuff to get out of their system.

Personally, I would not feed medicated, given the choice. I have virgin ground, my flock has been "closed" for more than a year, there's never been a case of coccidosis on property, and I'm hatching birds specifically for suitability to my environment, so its in my interest to see which birds thrive in spite of, and which don't. Coccidia, btw, are present in every environment in which humans have been for long - there's no escaping it, the question is only whether your birds guts and immune system can keep the numbers of coccidia inside them under control. So why did I mention "virgin" ground? Because it means there were never chickens here before mine, who might have experienced an outbreak I'm unaware of.

However, I get my feed from a local mill - its cheap, its fresh, and its good quality. Used by commercial poultry operations all around me - and its almost all medicated, even the adult "layer" feed. Eggs coming out of those farms, and going in those supermarket cartons came from birds eating medicated feed all their lives.

So go ahead and use the bag - no harm. Be aware that if you feed supplimental thiamine (a B vitamin, B-1), you can render the amprolium in the feed ineffective.

For the typical backyard owner, of the typical backyard flock, with typical backyard management practices, I (and a vocal majority of experienced BYC posters) am going to recommend an All Flock/FLock Raiser type feed, supplimented by free choice oyster shell in a seperate dish. There are almost no circumstances where I will recommend feeding "layer", in spite of its label-driven popularity, for reasons I could get into in a much lengthier post. That diet All Flock + Oyster Shell is recommended for all birds of all breeds, of all ages, and all genders. Its easy, offers good nutrition, and virtually no downside.

The only practical way to feed birds different feeds is to have different pens, with different food stations. You can't put different feeds in the same space and expect the birds to eat the right one - that's why All Flock plus free choice oyster is so often recommended. It provides better nutrition, to all your birds, than does layer, without the damaging extra calcium. Your layers, otoh, can get the extra calcium they need - in the exact amounts they need - from the oyster shell. While those that don't need it will avoid it.

and, when integrating, abundance is a social lubricant. Even if feeding the same feeds, having multiple feed and water stations reduces stress and speeds successful integrations.

Full Disclosure: I don't feed my birds that way. Nor do I feed them straight layer - but as you can see from the sig below, I don't have the typical backyard flock, and I don't have the typical backyard management practices.

 

[CKfarm22]

That is why I mentioned it being safe for everyone.
I had that problem - they only had a big bag in stock even though I knew I only needed a little bag - but I had no choice so I had to go with the big bag. I ended up feeding it to everyone for a couple of weeks just to use it up.

Hopping in here. though you've had good advice, albeit somewhat scattered.

Whether or not to feed medicated feed is a personal decision, informed by circumstances. Some never feed it. Some always feed it, to birds of all ages. Most are somewhere inbetween. Eggs (and meat) from birds eating medicated feed (assuming amprolium, the most common coccidiostat in the US) is perfectly safe to consume. Even the same day they ate the feed. There is no "waiting period" for the stuff to get out of their system.

Personally, I would not feed medicated, given the choice. I have virgin ground, my flock has been "closed" for more than a year, there's never been a case of coccidosis on property, and I'm hatching birds specifically for suitability to my environment, so its in my interest to see which birds thrive in spite of, and which don't. Coccidia, btw, are present in every environment in which humans have been for long - there's no escaping it, the question is only whiether your birds guts and immune system can keep their numbers under control. So why did I mention "virgin" ground? Because it means there were never chickens here before mine, who might have experienced an outbreak I'm unaware of.

However, I get my feed from a local mill - its cheap, its fresh, and its good quality. Used by commercial poultry operations all around me - and its almost all medicated, even the adult "layer" feed. Eggs coming out of those farms, and going in those supermarket cortons came from birds eating medicated feed all their lives.

So go ahead and use the bag - no harm. Be aware that if you feed supplimental thiamin (a B vitamin, B-1 I think?), you can render the amprolium in the feed ineffective.

For the typical backyard owner, of the typical backyard flock, with typical backyard management practices, I (and a vocal majority of experienced BYC posters) am going to recommend an All Flock/FLock Raiser type feed, supplimented by free choice oyster shell in a seperate dish. There are almost no circumstances where I will recommend feeding "layer", in spite of its label-driven popularity, for reasons I could get into in a much lengthier post. That diet All Flock + Oyster Shell is recommended for all birds of all breeds, of all ages, and all genders. Its easy, offers good nutrition, and virtually no downside.

The only practical way to feed birds different feeds is to have different pens, with different food stations. You can't put different feeds in the same space and expect the birds to eat the right one - that's why All Flock plus free choice oyster is so often recommended. It provides better nutrition, to all your birds, than does layer, without the damaging extra calcium. Your layers, otoh, can get the extra calcium themy need - in the exact amounts they need - from the oyster shell. WHile those that don't need it will avoid it.

and, when integrating, abundance is a social lubricant. Even if feeding the same feeds, having multiple feed and water stations reduces stress and speeds successful integrations.

Full Disclosure: I don't feed my birds that way. Nor do I feed them straight layer - but as you can see from the sig below, I don't have the typical backyard flock, and I don't have the typical backyard management practices.

This information is very much needed. In your opinion, should i stop giving them layer feed and switch to an all flock feed plus oyster shell?

 

[rosemarythyme]

This information is very much needed. In your opinion, should i stop giving them layer feed and switch to an all flock feed plus oyster shell?

That's up to you, to take the information given and make a decision that works for your flock and set up.

I would recommend all flock + oyster shell as the easiest way to manage a mixed age flock (though I myself don't follow that advice haha).

 

[RoyalChick]

I think all-flock feed plus oyster shell is best for everyone all the time.
However, I cannot always get all-flock feed. In that case I either give the adults starter/grower (not medicated) or I give them layer feed.
Mine waste less if they have pellets rather than crumbles and again supply of all-flock pellets is not always reliable where I am.

 

[Brooks_]

I've found I have more options with all flock/flock raiser/starter, to meet my desired feed levels. They don't always have my first choice.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This information is very much needed. In your opinion, should i stop giving them layer feed and switch to an all flock feed plus oyster shell?

"the dosage is the poison". Calcium toxicity has a time component, an amount component, a gender compent, a breed component, and an individual component.

In all likelihood, there will be no long term ill effects you are likely to notice if you continue to feed your birds the layer feed until the bag runs out, even if you inspect them closely post culling at some future date. Make the switch to All Flock/Flock Raiser when its out.

If, OTOH, you were to feed Layer to meaties, free choice, like CornishX from day one until culling for table between 8-12 weeks, and you were then to poke around in their insides, you would see evidence of calcium toxicity in the organs, though with few externally visible signs on the bird. Most studies I've read put the rate at about 1 in 7 +/-. If you continued to feed it to them, delaying culling till 18, 24, 30 weeks, etc - more and more birds would show internal damage, some would begin to show external signs, and a few would probably fall over dead - though even with a skilled necropsy, whether the cause was excess calcium or not might not always be determined - CX are notoriously brittle.

Basically, you are rolling your dice and taking your chances, just like hopping in the car and heading to the store involves a measure of risk. For adult birds near, at, or past onset of lay, producing reasonable-sized (Lg+) eggs with reasonable frequency (3 days of 5+), the risks associated with that bag are very very low, though I won't pretend to offer an exact figure. I can honestly say, however, "I'd risk it".

/edit and I've also used Starter/grower when I couldn't get All FLock last year, due to Pandemic shortages, before changing over to the local mill and a differing feed management practice.

 

[Brooks_]

involves a measure of risk.

So much of chickens comes down to that. I've been assured by some that a predator will get my roo before the calcium ever could. I can only mitigate the risk of predation, but I can control how much calcium is forced on him. Why take a chance on something I can control?

 

[CKfarm22]

"the dosage is the poison". Calcium toxicity has a time component, an amount component, a gender compent, a breed component, and an individual component.

In all likelihood, there will be no long term ill effects you are likely to notice if you continue to feed your birds the layer feed until the bag runs out, even if you inspect them closely post culling at some future date. Make the switch to All Flock/Flock Raiser when its out.

If, OTOH, you were to feed Layer to meaties, free choice, like CornishX from day one until culling for table between 8-12 weeks, and you were then to poke around in their insides, you would see evidence of calcium toxicity in the organs, though with few externally visible signs on the bird. Most studies I've read put the rate at about 1 in 7 +/-. If you continued to feed it to them, delaying culling till 18, 24, 30 weeks, etc - more and more birds would show internal damage, some would begin to show external signs, and a few would probably fall over dead - though even with a skilled necropsy, whether the cause was excess calcium or not might not always be determined - CX are notoriously brittle.

Basically, you are rolling your dice and taking your chances, just like hopping in the car and heading to the store involves a measure of risk. For adult birds near, at, or past onset of lay, producing reasonable-sized (Lg+) eggs with reasonable frequency (3 days of 5+), the risks associated with that bag are very very low, though I won't pretend to offer an exact figure. I can honestly say, however, "I'd risk it".

/edit and I've also used Starter/grower when I couldn't get All FLock last year, due to Pandemic shortages, before changing over to the local mill and a differing feed management practice.

So layer feed isn’t good for laying hens is what i’m getting? and i should be feeding them an all flock food?