Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

How? I would have had to dig tunnels for them. It was 42" deep. It took over an hour to dig my way to them.
They didn't seem to mind being locked in the coop/run combo for an extended period.

Do you know what the temperature was inside the coop DL. I remember when you built it warmth in winter was a consideration.

 

[MaryJanet]

If I am remembering correctly, the researchers in that first study found that the hens did not peck at the target to always keep the cage at its maximum size, but they found some size threshold that would trigger the hens to peck for a bigger cage.

Your Ex Batts are proving with time and patience they can overcome their breeding to a certain extent, but yeah, I know they have been breeding for that awful phrase "bears confinement well" and it stands to reason that they wouldn't be foragers.

Now you've got me wondering whether foraging is stressful for ex batts.

I'm mindful of the free range egg farmers who say their hens prefer to be in the barn.

 

[RoyalChick]

A coop within a coop so to speak might be easier to keep warm. It might be an interesting experiment.

Yes. Though right now we are having something of a heat wave so I am back to summer conditions!

 

[RoyalChick]

No, that is not what I am saying. It is so obviously untrue.
Chickens obviously do cope with temperatures outside what would seem to be their comfort zone.
So far, the only data to be presented reagarding any physiological changes in chickens as an adaptation to a specific environmennt is the link Perris supplied which if one reads looks to me to be changes related to altitude rather than temperature.
I am saying, that until there is some measurable physiological change in chickens reputed to be cold hardy what would seem to be most likely is the chicken, because it hasn't had a choice in the matter copes. It either copes or dies.
Coping doesn't mean everything is just fine and the chicken wouldn't rather live in more suitable conditions.
I do have a friend in Finland who works with Landrace breeds and they forage in the snow and live outside and have what I think might best be described as accilmatised to their conditions, as in hardened off to them.
There is a world of difference between aclimatising to an environment and undergoing physiological changes that enable one to thrive.
The Husky dog can live comfortably in sub zero temperatures because it's fur is different to other dogs who live in more temperate climates.

Back to cats - There are cats that have evolved for cold weather like snow leopards, but there are also feral cat colonies that are not evolved just acclimatized. I believe they go quite far into cold areas - I think even in Siberia.
I assume a thriving feral population is evidence of being able to do more than hold on to life by a thread.

 

[Perris]

Your Ex Batts are proving with time and patience they can overcome their breeding to a certain extent, but yeah, I know they have been breeding for that awful phrase "bears confinement well" and it stands to reason that they wouldn't be foragers.

this paper https://www.researchgate.net/public..._blood_cellular_composition_in_chicken_breeds
argues that different traditional breeds have significantly different white and red blood cell profiles (independently of the 7 blood groups chickens have - we have 3 [ABO]), which may be more evidence for you Shad of physiological differences developed in different environments; they specifically sought out breeds from different parts of the world. One of the breeds, a Czech one, was a 'bears confinement well' type. The Araucana was not.
Edited to add a picture of Maria, Araucana and head hen here, proving the point by owning the whole garden (and paying tax at the same time)

 

[Shadrach]

Online searches sure are frustrating. I have seen read and all sorts of relevant studies and articles that are rattling around in my head and can't seem to find any of them online!

On the subject of the amount of room chickens need:

I recall seeing a video quite a while ago of an experiment where they put a few battery type hens in a cage with walls that would slide out and make the cage bigger. The hens soon learned that they could peck at a target to make their cage bigger, and after some time the walls would slowly slide back to usual battery cage size. Researchers were trying to find out how much space was actually too little from a battery hen's point of view. Again, this was a study from the "industry" and I hope here we are never trying to find the bare minimum space they need, but it is an interesting premise: let the chickens decide for themselves how much room they want. California did enact larger sized cages long before the rest of the nation based on these studies.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread that after California enacted the ban on battery hens (2018), egg-producers here have had to re-think breeding egglayers. For so long they had bred lines of egg-layers that would be productive in cages and these same lines were not as healthy or as productive cage-free. So new lines are being developed for the cage-free industry. A small step-in the right direction, at least. Maybe we'll eventually get to all pasture raised eggs and won't see battery hen lines bred at all.

For me, my entire backyard is smaller than some people's runs. Following local regs, I did manage to fit in a coop/run that could have housed 4 full sized hens according to the guides set here on BYC. However, even as a chickens newbie 12 years ago, it just seemed wrong to me, too tight, hence the 3 bantams instead.

I haven't read the study and you don't mention what the objectives of the study were. On the face of it it seems like yet another of those science studies that go something like we took two chickens, chopped the head off one chicken and it died while the other chicken carried on living.
Suppose the chicken, having pecked the enlarger looked at the result and though, well that's not any more interesting then what I had so I may as well have a smaller space within which I feel safe.
If instead they had constructed a run of a very limited size that thhe chicken could see out of and then offered the chicken to increase the size of the run, I wonder if the result would have been the same.
The Ex Batts on the allotment show a distinct preference to the lager run than they do to the smaller. They don't have to come out when I open the gate.

 

[Perris]

On the face of it it seems like yet another of those science studies that go something like we took two chickens, chopped the head off one chicken and it died while the other chicken carried on living.

 

[Shadrach]

Should I move all the chickens into my husband's shop shop with the cats?? It's not heated (unless he's in there) but it's far warmer than the outside or the coop. I can just picture his face seeing 26 chickens roosting on his project wood and tools.

Tax! Here's a blurry view through the window to where my chickens were sunning themselves yesterday. Today there's no sun.
View attachment 2931185

Sure, I let the chickens into my house when it was cold and/or wet. In fact, they could come and go in my house as they pleased.
Try it and see. Maybe your husband might enjoy a biit of company.

 

[Shadrach]

If I am remembering correctly, the researchers in that first study found that the hens did not peck at the target to always keep the cage at its maximum size, but they found some size threshold that would trigger the hens to peck for a bigger cage.

Your Ex Batts are proving with time and patience they can overcome their breeding to a certain extent, but yeah, I know they have been breeding for that awful phrase "bears confinement well" and it stands to reason that they wouldn't be foragers.

They are out there though and this at least gives me hope that Mr Young was wrong and these Ex Batts could learn how to be proper chickens with proper treatment.

 

[Shadrach]

Now you've got me wondering whether foraging is stressful for ex batts.

I'm mindful of the free range egg farmers who say their hens prefer to be in the barn.

I think it is stressful for them which is one of the issues I have with the rehoming advice. If I had spent all my life in a room and suddenly found myself outside I reckon it would take some adjusting to.