Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Molpet]

It can't really be done during a necropsy. Firstly one would need a dead chicken with a crop full to capacity. Lots of changes happen to the body shortly after death.
With a set of calipers to start with. Later I filled a balloon with a quantity of feed (dry crumble) and felt a crop and then the balloon; adding or subtracting until the balloon and the crop felt the same. It's not exact but it's surprisngly close.

possible way
Take a hungry chicken
measure a bunch of feed, or weigh chicken
let said chicken eat until full
measure feed left, or weigh chicken

 

[Shadrach]

1. Effect of feeding protocol on broodiness. We do free-feeding. Birds have access to multiple feed stations all day long. Is this in any way related to none of them EVER going broody?

I wouldn't have thought so. I've had hens go broody with all sorts of feeding opportunities.

2. Effect of exercise on digestion. Does the foraging movement (scratch, scratch, peck peck) help move food through the system? The Brahma and Marans hens barely scratch the ground - it's more like they pat at it while waiting for the rooster to dig up something good - but they still move their feet. One of the Langshans scratches while she's at the feeder, like a reflex.

I'm going with yes on this without a shred of evidence to back it up.

 

[RoyalChick]

Are you saying it's voluntary on the chicken's part whether they send food to the crop or not, e.g., do you think Fret consciously decided to fill her crop because she was thinking about feed availability this morning, or were complex internal signals telling reflexes to unconsciously manuever food to the crop? Contractions are usually involuntary, but the word "choice" keeps coming up

Many biological processes adapt to needs and impending needs. An every day example is the mammalian metabolism of glucose. Our bodies can store it temporarily (e.g., in muscles), we can convert it to fat (which is more long term storage), we can use it in the moment, and we can manufacture it to meet acute needs.
Much of this has a diurnal rhythm reflecting the body's different needs when sleeping versus awake.
So I don't think we have to think about it like deciding whether to go left or right at a road junction. I suspect (but of course have no idea) that it is more on auto-pilot.
From a physiological point of view I would expect exercise to reduce the tendency to divert food to the crop, and impending sleep to increase the tendency to use the crop. I would also think that a meal made of things that take longer to digest might bypass the crop, but I don't know if the chicken has those sensors upstream from the crop. I gather that is in contention among scientists.

 

[Shadrach]

Do you have separate quarters lined up for Dig? I know you said you were going to put him on the plate if he caused problems, but if he causes problems while you aren't there, it could be fatal to him or Henry.

It could be fatal to either.
One day I will try to explain my views on chicken keeping. I think they are unusual by BYC standards and if not explained in the right manner I would likely be seen as a heartless bastard by some which I'm not.

There is no practical arrangement I can make and not imprison one even more than they are now..
It wouldn't matter whether I'm there or not. There is no way of knowing whether they can live together under their circumstances unless one lets them live together. They could fight on and off for months; I've had it happen on a few occasions and really stressfull all round. As long as it's a decisive win for one or the other, things tend to roll on as normal; for a while at least.
Some fights are no more than raised hackles and rushing at each other. Sometime one rooster wins and later the beaten rooster comes back for another try and he wins this time.
Innocent until proven guilty is my guide.
What do I do if one day I find Henry dead and Dig tells me he didn't mean to kill him but Henry's heart gave out. What I wonder would Henry prefer, a massive heart attack defending his right to lead the tribe, or stuck in some sick bay gradually fading away.
Chickens fight, both males and females. It's part of their life.
I want the chickens I care for to have a life, not just the cosy safe bits. You know, be able to reproduce, have friends and enemies, take risks, get hurt, have families and my function is and has been in the past, to do everything I can to faciilitate this under the circumstances I find the chickens in and that includes fighting each other.

 

[Molpet]

Our bodies can store it temporarily (e.g., in muscles), we can convert it to fat (which is more long term storage), we can use it in the moment, and we can manufacture it to meet acute needs.

Believe me I have tried to wish it not to go to fat

 

[HiEverybirdy]

To make a pleasant change for everyone I'm not saying much at all. What I've done is to report what some studies have found. It was the crop size thing that got me going because I know a bit about crop size limitations when it comes to feeding. I read at least three times the number of studies around the topics in my research. What I didn't know and this is the part I'm really interested in was that according to the studies a chicken can divert food to the crop or the proventriculus.

This is what's interesting. The studies say that it is the amount of food held in a chickens crop that makes it eat. Full crop = no more room so don't eat. Empty crop = eat. Seems reasonable.
Some of the studies state that what determines where the chicken sends the food is largely determined by how it is fed. Food constantly available, chicken sends food directly to the proventriculus and bypasses the crop. No need to store if there is no shortage of food.
Seems reasonable as well.
If a chicken is fed on a meal time basis (a quantity of feed given until eaten or removed after a period of time) then food is directed to the crop. We can see this when chickens try to fill their crop before roosting. They know there is not going to be food available during the time they roost. This can be anything between 14 hours and 6 hours roughly.
So, we have the two extremes but many of our chickens don't get fed at either extreme and nothing I've read deals with this and nothing I've read explains the exact mechanism by which a chicken diverts food from place to another.
So, I can't answer your question. If it's a conscious choice then the chickens takes one more step up the smarts ladder and it's a big step.



It can't really be done during a necropsy. Firstly one would need a dead chicken with a crop full to capacity. Lots of changes happen to the body shortly after death.
With a set of calipers to start with. Later I filled a balloon with a quantity of feed (dry crumble) and felt a crop and then the balloon; adding or subtracting until the balloon and the crop felt the same. It's not exact but it's surprisngly close.


The addition of water primarily although I believe some commercial feeds have additives that make the chicken eat more.

Many biological processes adapt to needs and impending needs. An every day example is the mammalian metabolism of glucose. Our bodies can store it temporarily (e.g., in muscles), we can convert it to fat (which is more long term storage), we can use it in the moment, and we can manufacture it to meet acute needs.
Much of this has a diurnal rhythm reflecting the body's different needs when sleeping versus awake.
So I don't think we have to think about it like deciding whether to go left or right at a road junction. I suspect (but of course have no idea) that it is more on auto-pilot.
From a physiological point of view I would expect exercise to reduce the tendency to divert food to the crop, and impending sleep to increase the tendency to use the crop. I would also think that a meal made of things that take longer to digest might bypass the crop, but I don't know if the chicken has those sensors upstream from the crop. I gather that is in contention among scientists.

Thanks for these responses. Fascinating. Glad I asked my questions!

@RoyalChick, great point about the biological auto-pilot. I know there's latin terminology for this type of process. Might ask DH later, as he's gone back to school recently and is doing coursework in biology this semester.

 

[RoyalChick]

Milieu Intérieur was the phrase coined by an early 19th Century French Physiologist to describe the way the body works to keep its systems in balance. It was a big advance in thinking about bodily functions and was later called 'the wisdom of the body'.
Lots of applications - but if you drink a lot of water, you end up peeing a lot is an intuitive one!

 

[fuzzi]

Like the expression "Scarce as hen's teeth"?

what's like that expression? not the purging of gizzard stones, because the saying refers to something non-existent whereas the purging is occasional. I'll try to remember to get a photo of them next time I see them. It's easier to see them if there is no bedding on the floor of course, which I do sometimes in summer but usually keep a layer as insulation in winter.

The small smooth stones could look like little teeth that the chickens lost, and might have given rise to the expression was what I was trying to convey.

It just came to mind as I read your post.

 

[MrsNorthie]

Chickens fight, both males and females. It's part of their life.

That is hard for a lot of us humans to understand, sometimes you have to just let them sort it out. As long as no one is really getting hurt, when it is more feather flairs and chest bumping, I let them sort it out. If it starts to get a little too heated, I just say "Boys!" and they stop. I feel very lucky that they mostly all get along and work together really well. Hopefully, Dig decides that Henry is boss, second in command isn't that bad and will settle on waiting for his turn.

 

[Perris]

The addition of water

can I come back to this? (because it's not possible/desirable in the article comments)