Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Skyeknight]

Because I don't have chickens at the moment, I'm real behind on my tax payments. In the interest of not having the chicken IRS pay a visit, here's some pictures of one of the in-laws' chickens. Unsure of genetics, some form of EE mutt. The curious thing about her is that she has an extra toe on only one foot, not both.
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To me it looks like she has some silkie ancestry. The crest, beard, gypsy face and 5 toes point to this. If I remember correctly heterozygous 5 toes can cause only 1 foot to have 5 toes and the other the normal 4 toes. Silkies also have feathered feet, which is dominant. Since this chickens doesn't have those she probably has a silkie grandparent and not direct silkie parent. She might even be fibromelanistic, but you would have to look at her skin colour under the wings or around her vent to verify. She is a very beautifull chicken!

 

[Vulpes vulpes]

To me it looks like she has some silkie ancestry. The crest, beard, gypsy face and 5 toes point to this. If I remember correctly heterozygous 5 toes can cause only 1 foot to have 5 toes and the other the normal 4 toes. Silkies also have feathered feet, which is dominant. Since this chickens doesn't have those she probably has a silkie grandparent and not direct silkie parent. She might even be fibromelanistic, but you would have to look at her skin colour under the wings or around her vent to verify. She is a very beautifull chicken!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure her parent is a silkie hybrid. They had some "ayam cemanis," which, other than being solid black and fibro, had no cemani traits. They did, however, have five toes and crests, so aside from their standard feathers and wacky combs, they pretty much fit the bill for silkie. I had no idea that polydactyly was incomplete dom, I'd never seen a bird have it on just one foot!

 

[Skyeknight]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure her parent is a silkie hybrid. They had some "ayam cemanis," which, other than being solid black and fibro, had no cemani traits. They did, however, have five toes and crests, so aside from their standard feathers and wacky combs, they pretty much fit the bill for silkie. I had no idea that polydactyly was incomplete dom, I'd never seen a bird have it on just one foot!

That doesn't suprise me at all. Cemani's go for such insane prices in the America's. Even super leaky ones with red combs and wattles go for a lot of money, so no wonder someone just made silkie crossbreds and sold them as cemani's.

Here in the Netherlands you can buy them pretty easily. We were the first European country to import them. I have never spotted any leaky ones either here on Marktplaats (Dutch version of craiglist).

 

[fluffycrow]

A cockerel-raising question for @Shadrach and anyone else who does broody-raised chickening:

I read the guess-the-breed-and-gender thread for fun. There is often wailing and gnashing of teeth when a young chicken starts looking like a roo, accompanied by “it’s always the boys who are so sweet and affectionate!”

How do cockerels behave in purely broody-raised flocks with minimal human interference? Do they get chased off at some point (age) by older hens? Do they seem more comfortable with humans than are pullets? If so, why might that be, in terms of evolutionary pressures?

I’m always curious about how human participation in chickens’ lives affects their behaviors.

I’ve read that a lot on those threads as well. Almost all the boys here were quite scared of humans as chicks.

As for broody-raised males specifically, there have been three broods so far that had males. The first had three Tsouloufati chicks hatch, two making it to adulthood. One was a male, and one was female. The female chick is Lucia, who as a chick was very friendly. She’s grown into an incredibly intelligent hen, that doesn’t enjoy the presence of humans, and will not let me touch her (fine by me). The boy was quite fearful from the beginning, and remained that way, until being butchered. Second time was with 7 males and 5 females. These boys were butchered at a much younger age (4-5 months I believe), but all were quite fearful of humans, as were the pullets. Last time was with two chicks, with only one making it to maturity. He’s now the head of the bantam pen, and his mother never let me touch him, something that he has kept up as a cockerel.

I have yet to find a correlation between gender and friendliness, especially at a young age.

As for how they are treated by the rest, well that depends. All the chicks mentioned above were raised in the bantam pen. The ruler of the bantam pen has always been Ursula. Something to know about Ursula, she’s a bit…

.

With the Tsouloufati chicks, she only got to know them after they had turned 3-4 weeks old. She wasn’t too merciful on them. Once they were moved in with the rest of the Tsouloufates (after Cruella, the surrogate broody, had left them), they did not receive too many pecks from the group. Kolovos was calm about having chicks around, although he wouldn’t let the boys roost near him. With the second brood, Ursula was much calmer, since she had co-raised them with Cruella. The current head of the bantam group received the regular Ursula treatment when he and his mother were first introduced .

As MrsNorthie said, I have found that it mostly depends on the personality of each bird and especially of the head hen and/or rooster how much they are tolerated

 

[ChaosMom]

I’ve read that a lot on those threads as well. Almost all the boys here were quite scared of humans as chicks.

As for broody-raised males specifically, there have been three broods so far that had males. The first had three Tsouloufati chicks hatch, two making it to adulthood. One was a male, and one was female. The female chick is Lucia, who as a chick was very friendly. She’s grown into an incredibly intelligent hen, that doesn’t enjoy the presence of humans, and will not let me touch her (fine by me). The boy was quite fearful from the beginning, and remained that way, until being butchered. Second time was with 7 males and 5 females. These boys were butchered at a much younger age (4-5 months I believe), but all were quite fearful of humans, as were the pullets. Last time was with two chicks, with only one making it to maturity. He’s now the head of the bantam pen, and his mother never let me touch him, something that he has kept up as a cockerel.

I have yet to find a correlation between gender and friendliness, especially at a young age.

As for how they are treated by the rest, well that depends. All the chicks mentioned above were raised in the bantam pen. The ruler of the bantam pen has always been Ursula. Something to know about Ursula, she’s a bit…View attachment 4112085.

With the Tsouloufati chicks, she only got to know them after they had turned 3-4 weeks old. She wasn’t too merciful on them. Once they were moved in with the rest of the Tsouloufates (after Cruella, the surrogate broody, had left them), they did not receive too many pecks from the group. Kolovos was calm about having chicks around, although he wouldn’t let the boys roost near him. With the second brood, Ursula was much calmer, since she had co-raised them with Cruella. The current head of the bantam group received the regular Ursula treatment when he and his mother were first introduced .

As MrsNorthie said, I have found that it mostly depends on the personality of each bird and especially of the head hen and/or rooster how much they are tolerated

Thank you; this is really interesting! I figured that at some point, cockerels might start getting the stink-eye from the senior hens, but I had no idea how it would play out.

And it never made sense to me that male baby chicks were being “friendly”! I just figured that they were being inquisitive, and that got anthropomorphized into affectionate.

Note: I am hoping to take Avian Ecology and Behavior, taught by my advisor, next spring (and final) semester. This is all getting me a jump-start on things.

 

[Shadrach]

How do cockerels behave in purely broody-raised flocks with minimal human interference?

I've found a lot depends on the mother and the keepers relationship with her. It also depends on how many cockerels and what age.
There is a tendency for people to say each cockerel is different and the keeping circumstances are different etc.
In every species there are common traits; almost a well defined list of behaviours in a particular set of circumstances but underpinning those is thousands of years of their ancestors behviour in conditions that didn't change very much, similar forage, nesting habits and family relationships.
Most of the behaviour studies I've read on jungle fowl found one rooster and one or maybe two hens to be the most common arrangement. There are studies that found larger groups but none of the larger group studies weren't able to recognise how the sub groups worked.
The point is, assuming a mating pair had or have progeny then either the progeny have died, or they moved away if they can't be found with their parents. I've never read a study where the life of a cockerel is tracked daily from hatch to adulthood; hardly surprising given how many hours observation is involved.

On my uncles farm (three to four tribes comprising a rooster and two to five hens) all the cockerels got eaten while I was there apart from two sons of senior roosters who replaced their fathers in the tribe after their father were killed by predators. All the sons that I can recal from there fought their fathers at some point and that's when they got eaten.
What seems likely for the majority one doesn't interfere with is, son gets killed by a predator, son survives to challenge his father, son beats father, son leaves.

I've found something like this to be the case with all groups. Some times it can take a few years for things to wash out as expected.
The bantams were the only group I've cared for where three generations of males ( father, just one son and one grandson ) led a reasonable coexistance for about six years. When the senior rooster died his son took over, coached by the mother, and things went on hardly missing a beat.
I very rarely touch the father, son or grandson and had nothing to do with the hatching really, just food and water providor. None of the males were human friendly, not aggressive, just not interested. The hens were much the same. Out of all the tribes the bantams were the only tribe that didn't consider my house part of their territory.
There was all sorts of stuff in the bantams genetic background.

The cockerels I spent a lot of time with for various (mum died, tribe threw them out or they didn't get introduced) were as one might expect much more friendly than those I had little to do with.

 

[Shadrach]

I've got a study somewhere in which they try to assess the changes if there were found any in the chickens brain. Considering the huge range of changes in the chickens body and plumage it is worth considering that the chickens natural behaviour hasn't changed much, they're still jungle fowl in strange bodies and strange envirnonments.

 

[ChaosMom]

I've found a lot depends on the mother and the keepers relationship with her. It also depends on how many cockerels and what age.
There is a tendency for people to say each cockerel is different and the keeping circumstances are different etc.
In every species there are common traits; almost a well defined list of behaviours in a particular set of circumstances but underpinning those is thousands of years of their ancestors behviour in conditions that didn't change very much, similar forage, nesting habits and family relationships.
Most of the behaviour studies I've read on jungle fowl found one rooster and one or maybe two hens to be the most common arrangement. There are studies that found larger groups but none of the larger group studies weren't able to recognise how the sub groups worked.
The point is, assuming a mating pair had or have progeny then either the progeny have died, or they moved away if they can't be found with their parents. I've never read a study where the life of a cockerel is tracked daily from hatch to adulthood; hardly surprising given how many hours observation is involved.

On my uncles farm (three to four tribes comprising a rooster and two to five hens) all the cockerels got eaten while I was there apart from two sons of senior roosters who replaced their fathers in the tribe after their father were killed by predators. All the sons that I can recal from there fought their fathers at some point and that's when they got eaten.
What seems likely for the majority one doesn't interfere with is, son gets killed by a predator, son survives to challenge his father, son beats father, son leaves.

I've found something like this to be the case with all groups. Some times it can take a few years for things to wash out as expected.
The bantams were the only group I've cared for where three generations of males ( father, just one son and one grandson ) led a reasonable coexistance for about six years. When the senior rooster died his son took over, coached by the mother, and things went on hardly missing a beat.
I very rarely touch the father, son or grandson and had nothing to do with the hatching really, just food and water providor. None of the males were human friendly, not aggressive, just not interested. The hens were much the same. Out of all the tribes the bantams were the only tribe that didn't consider my house part of their territory.
There was all sorts of stuff in the bantams genetic background.

The cockerels I spent a lot of time with for various (mum died, tribe threw them out or they didn't get introduced) were as one might expect much more friendly than those I had little to do with.

Thanks; very useful. You’re nearly the only source of information I’ve come across who has spent a lot of time just observing. Natural History as an approach to biology and ecology seems to be a lost art these days.

 

[townchicks]

Thank you; this is really interesting! I figured that at some point, cockerels might start getting the stink-eye from the senior hens, but I had no idea how it would play out.

And it never made sense to me that male baby chicks were being “friendly”! I just figured that they were being inquisitive, and that got anthropomorphized into affectionate.

Note: I am hoping to take Avian Ecology and Behavior, taught by my advisor, next spring (and final) semester. This is all getting me a jump-start on things.

If you will be studying avian behavior, you might find Mind of The Raven by Bernd Heinrich an interesting read. He studied wild and captive birds.

 

[ChaosMom]

@Perris (when it is daytime for you) - about 4-5 evenings ago, the girls started hanging out on the coop (Nestera) roof. The last three days, it’s been every afternoon-evening.

I don’t mind, except that the roof has become Poop City! I have to use the garden hose to shoot off the droppings, which makes the litter below soggy, and off we go.

Have your flocks ever done this?

If so, any idea what prompted it?

And after the above, any idea how to stop this nonsense, other than raising the coop platform so high that it’s uncomfortably close to the hardware cloth “ceiling”?